Has ds been treated unfairly? Entrance exam for school

[Penguinpairs]

Ds sat the 11+ entrance exam in Sep 2022. He didn't quite reach the pass mark. The school allow anyone who is within 10 marks of the pass grade to submit work along with a statement from their primary school teacher for review. Some children are then offered a place at the school. Ds is very capable at maths so this would not have been an issue, however his written work isn't as good as it might be due to his diagnosed dyslexia. His primary school teachers felt he was working to grammar school standards though. I have recently discovered that while the review panel were told he is dyslexic, there was no Senco or similar person there to explain the impact dyslexia can have on written work. I am concerned that ds has been measured unfairly against his peers. I have spoken to the school at his subsequent Sats and they have said that he will need to re take the exam this year. I don't think he was treated fairly though when they did his review.

Could anyone tell me if they think he was discriminated against? Thank you in advance

We have quite a few children who are dyslexia in our local grammar school - they are not marked differently to their peers. They may have access to a computer but if your son has been diagnosed I would have thought who ever diagnosed him would have recommended that if it was needed.

The 11 plus exam in our area is more heavily weighted towards the children's english skills. While maths is important its really the kids English skills that impacts more of the subjects than maths does.
Both my children passed their 11 plus exams for two counties - one of my children felt completely overwhelmed in the grammar school environment and after a year we moved her to private school where the smaller class sizes are better suited to her.
The other passed his 11 plus exams by quite a lot - he achieved 9s and 8s for all his GCSES...but being in a grammar school has knocked his confidence academically as there are so many super bright kids in them.
I really think if your son is struggling now to get in - he has not passed the 11 plus and the panel felt his written work was not up to scratch - I think this is a message to you to look at his other options. I now regret sending my daughter to a grammar school - there can be a lot of pressure there and you need your child to be capable of handling it.

You really think that a school that has an entrance exam, plus a board of people who discuss and choose who will be accepted after failing the exam, that they won't know about dyslexia?

Honestly I'm in agreement with @Crazycrazylady. How insulting.

there was no Senco or similar person there to explain the impact dyslexia can have on written work

They’ll know

He wasn't discriminated against.

Dyslexia typically gives extra time not extra marks.

This. Did he have any access arrangements, such as extra time? This is what is currently done to 'level thr playing field' (although I admit it is nowhere near level). Our entrance exams are marked entirely on merit, but access arrangements are given to children who are entitled to them. This might include extra time, typing on a laptop, rest breaks, a prompt, etc. Then papers are marked anonymously.

At GCSE, students can have a scribe who writes all the SPaG for them, but they then lose all the SPaG marks. I haven't come across anyone requesting this at 11+. It would be a disaster in my school, as out entrance exams are marked heavily on SPaG!

The thing is, he will still have to keep up with his peers, and will need to cope in an academically demanding environment in order to thrive. It does students a disservice to offer them a place knowing that they are going to struggle.

If, however, your child is entitled to access arrangements but didn't have them, then that's an entirely different matter.

Azandme I have a great relationship with the primary school, where I still have DC and while training has accelerated over the last couple of years I can assure you that many teachers have said to me that they feel out of their depth when it comes to any sen.

With all due respect - to you and my primary colleagues, the training for secondary teachers is VERY different to primary.

You may have a great relationship with the primary, but this ISN'T a primary school, it's a secondary school where teachers are subject specific experts.

Kindly, you can't compare the two.

By all means ask the school for a SENCo review - but they'll no doubt defer to the head of English. It's an academic selection.

I would ask the question . How is dyslexia taken into account in the review? Surely they should be able to give you an answer ? Then you will know ?

I think the panel would be aware of the impact of dyslexia.

You say some people are offered places. Unfortunately, there isn’t enough places for everyone. I assume the other pupils who submitted work were also grammar school suitable. However, unfortunately they can’t give places to everyone.

Unkess you can prove they discriminate against all children with dyslexia or have learning difficulties, it’s hard to say he was unfairly assessed.

I would argue that everyone who works in education understands dyslexia, OP.

I very much doubt they'd need a Senco to explain it.

I would wager they have filled places with children who either performed slightly better on the exam or who had better references from primary.

I think in general if parents or schools feel that a learning difficulty will have affected performance in an exam, it's up to them to submit evidence of how that will affect performance - they can't necessarily expect that the exam board will know about every type and degree of learning difficulty. Yes, as people have said, teachers should be familiar with the effects of dyslexia, but there are widely varying degrees of dyslexia and the people on the board can't be expected to know how it affected your child in particular unless they have independent evidence about it.

I know it's too late for you to do anything about this, but the evidence about dyslexia should have been submitted before the exam with information about the adjustments - e.g. extra time, quiet room, scribe, reader or whatever - that your child needed to ensure he could do himself justice.

I was unsure about asking for help on this forum and tbh I wish I hadn't. Not because I haven't heard what I wanted to hear but because so many people haven't read what I wrote and are just telling me that I should have done more re the exam. This has nothing to do with the exam as I stated, I don't know whether people dislike like the grammar school system or think I'm trying to 'sneak' ds in but the tone towards me has been unkind for asking a simple question. I didn't know so wanted to ask people who might have a better understanding than me.

I wonder if I had asked 'The local council have run a writing competition and it will be partly judged on spag, should there be someone to explain the impact of ds' dyslexia while judging takes place?' I'd have received the same aggression (apart from the fact it would be ridiculous to ask for support in the above example but you hopefully get my drift). It's got nothing to do with the exam, or really the grammar school itself, merely if ds is judged against his peers on written work should someone with a clear understanding of dyslexia be there?

Thank you though to the couple of posters that did actually respond to the question I asked, rather than repeatedly telling me I should have mentioned it at the exam phase which is a completely separate and non related event

Your council example is not comparable, though, OP. I wouldn't necessarily expect council employees or any other random judges that they might appoint to have a good understanding of dyslexia. However, this is a school and we are talking about teachers, ie trained educationalists. Several of them have already been on the thread telling you that they find it offensive when you suggest that they don't already have an understanding of how dyslexia would impact on written work, but you don't seem to be willing to take that on board.

You say that the exam was fair, so I'm presuming that any necessary adjustments were made. You say that the review panel were aware of his dyslexia, so they will have taken it into account. I don't accept your perception that trained teachers might assume that dyslexia affects reading only. So overall, the process sounds like it was probably as fair as it could have been.

Ultimately, there will always be winners and losers in selective education systems. The 11+ isn't a foolproof way of selecting the brightest children and there will always be some very bright kids who miss out. That's just the way the system works. Personally, it's one of the reasons why I would get rid of selective education altogether, but a lot of parents seem to love it, at least while their kids manage to stay on the right side of the system.

Your ds is clearly a bright young man and he will be fine where he is. It doesn't sound like there was any discrimination in the process, just the usual luck/unfairness that is unfortunately built into the system. Time to put it behind you now, and focus on ensuring that your ds gets access to the best possible educational opportunities where he is.

How can the exam be a completely separate and non-related event? It's effectively all part of the entry process.

It's well recognised that if you want to ask for accommodations for an academic test you do so beforehand not afterwards, otherwise the assumption will be that actually the issue isn't a serious one and you've only brought it up after the event because you failed. For instance, if you failed an exam and said that actually you were feeling ill at the time, please could they take that into account, the examiners would refuse because you should have got a doctor's certificate at the time and given it to them.

I wonder if I had asked 'The local council have run a writing competition and it will be partly judged on spag, should there be someone to explain the impact of ds' dyslexia while judging takes place?' I'd have received the same aggression

If you were part of any such contest and were saying that dyslexia might affect your performance, you would be expected to file your own report from someone like an educational psychologist or dyslexia specialist teacher. You couldn't expect the council to recruit someone who knows nothing about how severe your dyslexia is and how it affects you to advise them.

DS had to do an entrance exam for his school. He's dyspraxic and his handwriting is absolutely terrible - I can barely read it and don't know how his teachers manage (this has been noted on every single school report since he started writing and until he was allowed to type - luckily he has a sense of humour about it).

He still passed the exam (he didn't have extra time, but they made allowances for the writing/strived to read it and he wasn't marked down for neatness). We worked with the SEN lead to get the right evidence to allow him to type (looking forward to his exams, we didn't want to just let him type without being able to justify it correctly to the exam boards), and he's doing well.

I think that if the grammar school isn't prepared to make that accommodation in the exam, that doesn't bode well for how it would be treated later on - and if he's on the cusp, I think that could be extremely tough for him

In our area, we call this situation ’borderline’. We knew the kids who had their books taken were borderlines before the results were released. I was a grammar pupil, and had friends who had been ‘borderlines’. Every one of them really struggled in such a competitive environment and lived with the constant fear of being kicked out (We’d have exams every Xmas and summer, and kids who repeatedly failed them would be moved to the local high school). They all ended up with decent, but not brilliant GCSE results and mostly didn’t stay on for sixth form.

I wouldn’t have let my kids go to grammar if they were borderline.

I remember the same. Kids who appealed to get in struggled and even ones who'd got in first time could get a shock going from being top in their junior school to being mediocre all of a sudden.

"@StaunchMomma · 28/01/2024 22:38

I would argue that everyone who works in education understands dyslexia, OP."

I actually disagree a lot with you and other posters who have said similar. It's not extra time & coloured inlays. I am a parent of a child with severe dyslexia (and probably dyscalculia - best of luck ever getting a diagnosis with that) who attended a dyslexic supposedly specialist school, before moving on to a small independent school who were OK at dealing with SEN. I completed Y1 of a teacher training course and now work in a non-selective secondary school dealing with assessment & timetabling.

Other posters have clearly articulated above that dyslexia is not just about not being able to read & write at the same level and age as their peers. And that is correct. The root of this - the poor working memory - means slowness to process thought - so a busy classroom with 32 students and a pace for the teacher to keep to is unlikely to suit that type of learner. Very few practical subjects offered and they are often stuffed with the students with behavioural issues - not the same at all as a child with spld who wants to learn but who needs time and repetition. I don't see in my school any support being provided for kinaesthetic learners. Eg in maths. Why aren't physical resources being used? The teacher stays in the same classroom so they could be kept there. It's not how they choose to teach maths. We could discuss Executive Functioning and how students who fail this in secondary mainstream are very likely to fall foul of behaviour policies.

I'm nearly through this now - my child passed english and maths at Level 2 so can do the courses they want at college and beyond. But I rarely met a teacher who really understood dyslexia and its impact. Unless they have experienced it at home. PS lets discuss the often total loss of confidence a child like this might be experiencing by age 11 as they know how different they are to their peers. Very few secondary schools will have the time to catch up on that.

You obviously don't think much of the people making the decision, that only a senco can possibly understand dyslexia.

Of course the people on the panel will understand dyslexia and the impact on work.

Your child, unfortunately, didn’t meet the requirements they felt a child with dyslexia would need to have in order to keep up at the grammar school.

From what you have described OP the only argument that your DS had been discriminated against is if the panel would usually have a SENCO present to do the review and had not in the case of your son, but if the panel was selected following the schools usual policy then I don’t think you have a case.

If it is troubling you why don’t you approach the school and ask why he was not selected? It may settle your mind ?

Presumably a strong piece of written work was submitted, one which would have had his normal reasonable adjustments applied. The school would then have been comparing like with like as the reasonable adjustments would already be reflected in his work. No, he has not been discriminated against.

If there is no senco on the panel that that doesn’t bode well for the support they can offer your child surely? Seems a non starter. Stay away

I didn't say dyslexia was 'just about extra time and coloured inlays' at any point.

In my opinion, when I was teaching I could say that Dyslexic kids in my schools were well supported and staff were well informed. Maybe not all schools have an effective Senco or teachers that take the opportunity to learn and understand the conditions the kids they teach may have, but many do. In fairness, I left teaching 12 years ago and the Tories have done a great job of screwing education over in that time. I dare say a lot of those SEN & EAL departments have been squeezed down to virtually nothing by now.

As far an entrance exams go, as far as I'm aware (and I have looked into this as my DS did the 11+ and has ASD and is being tested for Dyspraxia) the only 'allowances' made by exam boards for the above or Dyslexia is extra time given. There is no opportunity for anyone to 'represent' the child in person or explain their specific needs to a panel. That's something to take up with the examination board or school governors (if the entrance exam is specifically for that school) if the OP doesn't agree with it but I really don't think the process is discriminatory.

When we put our children forward for such exams we do so knowing that the schools will fill the limited places with the children they deem to be the most academically capable. Maybe not the fairest system but results are how schools are judged and ranked so it is understandable.