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Original poster

Complaint over missing parcel

38 replies

Namechanged4obviousreasons · 12/01/2024 20:10

Hi,

I wondered if someone could advise if this is right. I ordered a Christmas present and was told delivery would be 3-5 days, when I’d be home. It turned up after 24 hours whilst I was at work. I arrived home to find no parcel and after complaining to the seller, they opened an investigation. I’ve waited several weeks for a response which is that the delivery company state it was delivered and have a photo of it left outside my house. They claim this is sufficient and my complaint is closed.

The item in question is over £100 so this is a huge amount of money to lose. I live on a massively busy road and in my opinion, leaving it outside was not a safe place. I’ve escalated to a manager as a formal complaint and they claim it was safe as it wouldn’t have been immediately in view of the road as it was partly tucked behind a wall. This does not mean that my parcel couldn’t be stolen or that the driver could have photographed it and taken it back. I only have their word on this.

Either way, I’m out of pocket, my son didn’t get his present and I cannot afford to buy it again. The seller says they won’t refund and the delivery company say the same. I can’t understand this as reading the T’s and C’s now (hindsight is a wonderful thing), it does say parcels may be delivered to a safe place but I didn’t ask for this. I just expected delivery when I’d be home and thought as it was over £100, they’d never just leave it. How is this my fault? I never ask for my parcels to be left outside and yet they do this and it’s then my fault if it goes missing.

I purchased through PayPal and have raised a dispute but then read that as they have a tracking link, it will automatically be found in favour of the seller. I’m so upset. We can’t buy things on the high street as shops have closed and now we’re not safe to buy online either. This just feels totally wrong.

OP posts:
TizerorFizz · 12/01/2024 20:19

Did you nominate a “safe place” for the delivery? Mine is on the delivery notes and apps. See “not going to be in?” Texts etc. Where did you expect it to be left? Nicking deliveries is huge in London. You might need to nominate a collection point but for now, if they can prove it was delivered, I’m not sure what you can do. Do they have a photo?

Doggymummar · 12/01/2024 20:21

PayPal are brilliant at siding with the buyer, they will sort it out

KievLoverTwo · 12/01/2024 22:32

Is your PayPal linked to a credit card by any chance? If it is, credit card companies are really good at sorting things out.

If you did not or have never nominated a safe place for this delivery company I think you should tell them you never ever would have and they owe you the money, otherwise you will be reporting the delivery company to the police for theft.

They really don't care though. I came downstairs and found all my partners bday presents strewn over the lawn because the Amazon numpy left them on the doorstep in the middle of a storm, when they were in.

I would also post your your local Facebook group to see if anyone has had similar with this company. If they have, it's further ammunition.

Original poster
Namechanged4obviousreasons · 13/01/2024 01:33

Hi All, thanks for the replies and advice.

No, I haven’t nominated a safe space. It was the first time ordering from this company and I believe the first thing I’ve had delivered by this courier too. I don’t order much online but on the odd occasion I do and it’s been left outside, I’ve thankfully been home soon after delivery and been able to retrieve it. With this parcel, I thought it would arrive a day or so later, when I would have broken up for Christmas and been home. If anything, I thought delivery may be later, rather than sooner in the lead up to Christmas. I also never expected an item would be left outside when it’s worth over £100, this seems insane.

I’m just frustrated because I didn’t ask them to leave it outside and I don’t understand how they’re saying their duty is just to deliver it to somewhere on my property that they deem safe (I don’t) and when it goes wrong, there’s no comeback on them and I’m supposed to absorb the cost. It seems they can call anything a safe space and say they’ve acted correctly.

From everything I’ve just read, PayPal protection seems a waste of time. It seems they automatically settle in favour of the seller if they produce a tracking number, which the courier has.

Sadly, I bought using a debit card through PayPal. In future, I won’t pay for anything with PayPal and will only use my credit card.

It’s just frustrating because so many companies use couriers that leave items in ‘safe spaces’ without ever asking if the customer wants this. I would quite happily have them deliver to a local shop etc instead, but most don’t seem to offer this. With the high street shops disappearing, we’re forced to order online. Of course, their T’s and C’s will state somewhere that couriers can leave in a safe place and this is their get out of jail free card.

Sorry for the rant guys, I’m just really annoyed. £120 might not be much to some folk but it was a huge amount to me and my son still can’t have the item he wanted for Christmas now, despite me working hard for this! 🥺

OP posts:
mamacorn1 · 13/01/2024 01:43

Keep on at PayPal they will sort this

CuriousGeorge80 · 13/01/2024 01:44

I am pretty sure that the legal position is that they have to refund if they left at the door without your approval. Keep pushing!

Annony331 · 13/01/2024 04:56

The contract to deliver is between the seller and the delivery firm. The seller has evidence they sent it. The delivery people say it was delivered.

You may ask the seller to approach the delivery people again to ask them to define their policy about what is and is not a safe place and look for some way in that way.

amylou8 · 13/01/2024 05:59

If it's been safely delivered then it's a straight forward case of theft, and you should report it to police (who will do nothing). Paypal are unlikely to help if there's tracking, although you have nothing to lose by opening a dispute.

littlemousebigcheese · 13/01/2024 08:11

Call PayPal, i find that is the most helpful way to get things sorted.

castawave · 13/01/2024 08:45

I would also contact non emergency police and get a crime reference number as the parcel has been stolen

lunarleap · 13/01/2024 08:50

£120 might not be much to some folk no £120 is loads to everyone really.

Sorry this happened

TizerorFizz · 13/01/2024 09:03

If they have proof of delivery then they have delivered it. The seller might help you out. However I’ve had packages of greater value left by the door with a new courier. Did you get no info about delivery and safe place nomination? Most people cannot guarantee to be in, so that’s what you do. It is theft and I don’t entirely see it’s anyone’s fault. Maybe you should have been at home?

prh47bridge · 13/01/2024 09:20

Your contract is with the retailer, not the delivery company. Your rights are against them and your credit card provider. They may have a claim against the delivery company, but that is not your problem.

The law is that, if you specify a safe place and the parcel is left there, it is your problem if it goes missing. However, if you do not specify a safe place and the parcel goes missing, the retailer is in breach of contract.

Despite what the previous poster thinks, it doesn't matter that they have proof of delivery, mainly because they don't. They don't have proof that it was delivered to you. They have proof that it was left outside your house in a place that you did not specify. That shows they are in breach of contract, and you are therefore entitled to either a refund or a replacement.

WiseUpJanetWeiss · 13/01/2024 09:27

TizerorFizz · 13/01/2024 09:03

If they have proof of delivery then they have delivered it. The seller might help you out. However I’ve had packages of greater value left by the door with a new courier. Did you get no info about delivery and safe place nomination? Most people cannot guarantee to be in, so that’s what you do. It is theft and I don’t entirely see it’s anyone’s fault. Maybe you should have been at home?

They don’t have proof of delivery though. They (and indeed the OP) have proof that the courier dumped the parcel in an unsecure location.

TizerorFizz · 13/01/2024 09:32

She did not provide a secure location! Or have I missed something. Where was secure? They usually photograph the parcel to prove delivery. I don’t necessarily see it’s the couriers fault when the op did not telL them where a safe place actually was.

TizerorFizz · 13/01/2024 09:35

Also why not discuss with the supplier about delivery to a local shop? Often this service is offered too. They are secure locations. Most of us cannot guarantee to be in all the time so we use the courier services on offer if we are concerned. Where was the parcel going to be safe and also it should have been signed for!

prh47bridge · 13/01/2024 09:39

TizerorFizz · 13/01/2024 09:32

She did not provide a secure location! Or have I missed something. Where was secure? They usually photograph the parcel to prove delivery. I don’t necessarily see it’s the couriers fault when the op did not telL them where a safe place actually was.

No, OP did not provide a secure location. That means the retailer is responsible if the package is left and goes missing. OP has a claim against the retailer and the retailer probably has a claim against the courier.

If OP had provided a secure location and the courier had left it there, it would be different. It would then be OP's problem if the package went missing.

That is the law. Whether you think the retailer or courier should be responsible is irrelevant. The law says they are.

LordyMe · 13/01/2024 10:11

Obviously what @prh47bridge is correct but just checking this was something you bought from a company and not an individual also that the company is based in the UK.

If so then this should be straightforward . If both the company and PayPal refuse to reimburse you then you may or may not be able to use Section 75 to get the money back from your bank if you paid by credit card. If you were just using PayPal to pay then you should be able to but if you were logged into your PayPal account then PayPal will be treated as a third party and Section 75 won't be applicable.

LordyMe · 13/01/2024 10:12

Also, this is why ring doorbells or security cameras can be useful.

OneMoreTime23 · 13/01/2024 10:15

I also never expected an item would be left outside when it’s worth over £100, this seems insane.

Delivery drivers don’t know what is in the parcel.

OneMoreTime23 · 13/01/2024 10:15

LordyMe · 13/01/2024 10:11

Obviously what @prh47bridge is correct but just checking this was something you bought from a company and not an individual also that the company is based in the UK.

If so then this should be straightforward . If both the company and PayPal refuse to reimburse you then you may or may not be able to use Section 75 to get the money back from your bank if you paid by credit card. If you were just using PayPal to pay then you should be able to but if you were logged into your PayPal account then PayPal will be treated as a third party and Section 75 won't be applicable.

OP has already said she didn’t pay with a credit card.

WiseUpJanetWeiss · 13/01/2024 10:16

TizerorFizz · 13/01/2024 09:32

She did not provide a secure location! Or have I missed something. Where was secure? They usually photograph the parcel to prove delivery. I don’t necessarily see it’s the couriers fault when the op did not telL them where a safe place actually was.

Yes. You’ve missed the fact the parcel was dumped, not delivered.

Maybe2 · 13/01/2024 10:27

some posters are giving you an unnecessarily hard time OP. The law is clear that delivery is at the point where the goods are transferred to your possession. The retailer has responsibility for the parcel until it is handed to you or to someone that you have named to accept the delivery on your behalf. Leaving the item outside does not count as delivery unless you have specified to be left there. The only time this doesn’t apply is if you chose the courier and arranged the delivery yourself, as then the delivery contract is between you and the courier. It seems like you used the retailer’s choice of courier?

I can’t find the document I used, but something similar happened to me a few years ago with a major retailer and I raised a successful dispute with my debit card a few years ago, after PayPal rejected my dispute.

prh47bridge · 13/01/2024 11:02

@Namechanged4obviousreasons - If Paypal refuse a refund, you may be able to get your bank to reverse the transaction and get your money back by chargeback. The other option is to send the seller a letter before action then take them to the small claims court. This will cost you £35 but you will be able to claim that back from the retailer.

I would also be very clear with the seller that, as you did not specify a safe place for the package to be left, all their photo proves is that the package was not delivered to you, it was simply left outside your house and therefore they are responsible. Refer them to the Consumer Rights Act 2015 section 29 which says that the goods are at the trader's risk until they come into the consumer's physical possession, or someone identified by the consumer to take possession. As you did not specify a safe place, the goods have never been in your physical possession.