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No evidence but still called for a disciplinary meeting... any leg to stand on?

32 replies

anamay · 01/01/2024 15:50

I work for a hospital and recently my manager called me to say I am being put on suspension because they have viewed on cctv that I did not carry out observations according to their expectation. I was told someone will call me for a fact finding interview. I also received a letter with the allegations, In the fact finding interview she asked me to say what was my response I said oh I will not say yes or no but since there is cctv, let us review the tape, she asked me to sign this meeting i did. Then texts me to say that here will be no second meeting because the cctv is missing, but management still want to carry on with the disciplinary procedure citing there were two senior officials that viewed the tape so are convinced am in the wrong. I have only worked for the trust a year so I doubt any employment tribunal will hear me out in case this leads to dismissal.. what can I answer at the disciplinary because it is not making sense at all.

OP posts:
FIuffy · 01/01/2024 21:44

Someone could have died on your watch because you didn’t do the job you were paid to do.

You’ve completely broken your employer’s trust.

Gross misconduct is likely their only option here.

StBrides · 01/01/2024 21:50

'Snoring' can indicate an obstructed airway so in a clinical setting I can see why hearing them snore while looking through the window wasn't sufficient I'm afraid.

From what you've told us, you need to accept the the responsibility of not carrying out procedure, but if its symptomatic of a wider issue within the team, with other staff members doing the same, then in your shoes I would see whether this could be used to stop you losing your job...Hold your hands up and to it and apologise, request retraining and flag up the wider laxity within the team.

(Am not legally trained in any capacity btw)

Pottyberry · 01/01/2024 22:22

TW self harm and suicide

Surely each patient has a care plan that indicates if they have specific risks, for example tying ligatures under the covers, and their obs are reviewed on their prior risk and that days risks/behaviour. Hourly obs, rather than 1 to 1, eyesight etc seems to indicate relatively low risk has been identified for that patient. High risk patients where I work sometimes have arms length obs 24 hours a day, as their suicidal ideation is so high.

I think you need specific legal advice and access to all paperwork/notes. But if you say "that's what everyone does" it won't save you if you made a mistake.

NerrSnerr · 01/01/2024 22:24

I haven't worked on an inpatient psychiatric ward for a long while but this feels harsh to me.

If someone was in an adult psychiatric ward and on hourly observations with low suicide or physical health risks recorded I would have looked through the peep hole and if I could see/ hear them breathe I wouldn't open the door. It's hard sleeping on a ward and I wouldn't want to risk waking them. It of course depends on the person and why they've been admitted.

If they were on any higher level of obs then of course I would have gone in.

Have you double checked the ward/ trust observation policy? If that says that night time obs cannot be done through the window in the door then they're correct. If there's nothing in the policy or the person's care plan (that was used in that time period) then I think you need to stand your ground.

Redburnett · 01/01/2024 22:59

Either you did the observations in accordance with guidelines/instructions or you didn't. TBH your OP does not give confidence that you did them correctly but only you know if that is the case. If you did do them correctly why didn't you say so when asked? If you didn't then you can expect to be disciplined according to Trust procedure.

quisensoucie · 02/01/2024 09:43

@anamay Oh, OP, just because everyone else does it like that, doesn't mean you should.
I had to fail a student nurse for not following written procedure - she was following the usual routine in the clinical area, but it was wrong
Yes, we had to review all clinical areas following this and were not unsurprised to see it happening elsewhere. However, the shortcuts were dangerous

VerityUnreasonble · 02/01/2024 21:09

You really need to check the observations policy and see if it states you need to enter the room.

Where I have worked in the past it would be care planned if entering a room at night on a regular basis was needed as it tends to disturb sleep and observations can usually be carried out through the window, ideally using low light / red torch. It would be documented if movement and breathing (chest movement) was observed and any sound heard. If you couldn't be sure / clearly observe then you would have to go in for safety. I've spent lots of time staring through windows holding my own breath until I was sure someone was really breathing.

Hourly obs suggest someone is reasonably low risk so waking them up every hour isn't going to support recovery.

But! If your policy says go in, you need to go in. The policy might need reviewing but that needs bringing up separately, you can't just decide not to follow it.

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