Housing association assured succession - under occupying

[convexhedge]

I wondered if anyone had any advice on exemptions to the under occupation rule for HA assured tenancy succession.

My mother is in ill health, I believe i'll inherit the succession as I'm her son, it's in the tenancy agreement and i've lived here for 30 years of my life with all the documented proof required.

However I would be a single male occupying a 3 bed (2 bed and a very very small box room) also I'm in poor mental & physical health and for many more non legally binding reasons would be unable to uproot myself from the only home i've ever known.

So i've lived here all my life, out of my own pocket and hard work done most of the maintenance, DIY, decorating, gardening & finances over 30 years to keep the home to a very high standard, never had any complaints about behaviour or damage and have good rapport with all neighbours as i also maintain an easement alley at the back of the houses which i'm not obliged to so they love me for that.

Are there any techniques/exemptions to retain my under occupied house after succession is granted ? i've spent hours researching but i cant seem to find any definitive exemptions from the under occupying rule ?

Many Thanks for any help on the matter.

The devil is the the detail.

Your mum's tenancy agreement may allow a contractual succession to you but whether they guarantee a tenancy of your mum's property or any other property depends on the terms.

If you become a tenant of your mum's property by contractual succession they can only evict you by using discretionary ground 9 so the court would have to find it reasonable to evict you (which it probably will given given the pressures on Housing stock notwithstanding your MH) but it would also have to be satisfied the alternative accommodation is suitable- either because the HA have done a deal with the local authority and the LA will rehouse you, or because the court agrees with the parameters of rehousing (probably a one bed, possibly in same rough location etc).

However the tenancy terms might actually allow them to simply offer you a tenancy elsewhere, and if you don't accept it, they can end your (then late) mothers tenancy and evict you as a trespasser.

So as said above, the devil is in the detail of any tenancy terms and policy.

I would ask your HA to get assurance when the worst happens.

I was in the same position as you, lived with my parents all my life in same council house. A few years back I was put on the joint tenancy as it changed from council to a Housing Association.

Unfortunately I lost my parents within 3 months off each other, my mum and then my dad and due to the short length off time the tenancy was never changed from my mum to my dad. So I became sole tennant.

I do have to pay bedroom tax for under occupied and it is a struggle as I am on benefits, suffering with mental health issues. But I figure what I'll have to pay is worth it, rather then being in a one bed flat. As I know my mental health will get worse, this is all I known and have looked after the house, garden etc. I hardly leave the house anyway.

The HA have never asked me to leave or offered something else. I know they would bite off my hand if I did but maybe one day in the future I will.

But for now this is my home and ignore anyone that says you should give it up for a family. It's not your fault there is a housing shortage etc.

But for your own mental health I would ask the HA before the worse happens. Because you will be in no fit state to cope with losing mum and your home.

Forgot to say I am in a 3 bed house

Its2024 - you are in an unusual situation which isn't comparable to the OP because you were the tenant when the joint tenant died.
Intergenerational joint tenancies are not permitted by most housing associations and councils because they don't make the best use of now scarce social housing stock.

@DojaPhat What about those of us whose circumstances changed AFTER having a child? What about those whose DHs died, leaving them a single mum and meaning they had no choice but to apply for social housing?
Wow your judgement of those in need is shocking

@LonelynSad What I find most bemusing about your post is that you have failed to understand it to such a magnitude we'd need to start from the beginning. But ok, if the rage gets you off.

See if they will allow your mother to Assign the tenancy to you.

I haven't misunderstood in the slightest love! Your appalling judgement of "those who chose to have kids" is what I'm referring to. Of course I understand your underlying point, I'm just disgusted at the vile judgment emanating from your post.

@LonelynSad Ok babe. Good luck xx

@convexhedge I think it's worth remembering that whilst yes it's been your home your whole life and no complaints/been good tenants etc, which is great, that legally none of that is relevant to the issue. What is relevant to your HA, is the fact that the home you've lived in your entire life is suitable for a family with potentially up to 4 children.
My local LA and my HA will expect same sex children aged under 8 to share a room. So a family with say, two boys under 8 & two girls under 8, would be allocated a 3 bed. They also quite likely would allocate them it if they also had a newborn and no 4 beds were available as technically, a newborn can stay in with the parents until one year of age.
So my point here is that your home could potentially house seven people at a maximum. It almost certainly would house six people if it became available again.
Think about that OP.
When I lived in temporary accommodation I was on my own but in every single other room in the building I was in, were families with 3/4/5/6/+ children, crammed into 1 bed temporary flats. All sharing one bed and a mattress on the floor between them. Most of the families in there were so through no fault of their own (domestic violence, fire, family issues, death etc). They had all been there more than 18 months. Some over four years. Just imagine what a difference a 3 bed home would make to the miserable lives of a family like them.

Many of the younger children there had never known anything other than sharing a mattress on the floor, all crammed into one room. It's heartbreaking.

In my local area ( I work in housing) you will be offered a succession of tenancy BUT not that tenancy as you are under occupying by 2 rooms. You will have some element of choice but very unlikely be able to stay in this home I'm sorry to say.
Would you be fully able to pay the rent and 25% under occupancy charges if you were allowed to stay?

@LonelynSad I'll reiterate, because you may not have read my additional posts. I wasn't looking for personal opinions on if i deserve the home or not, or if there are people who are in desperate need of the home and none of the examples you mention are my fault or of any relevance to the question. I was asking for purely legal advice on the legal part of the forum about my rights and if my circumstances had any legally binding exemption "when" the time comes and have not argued with the legislation that people who understood the question have posted in response. You are arguing about ethical concerns which are irrelevant to my question.

@whatthehellnow23 Yes i could afford the full rent. You seem to be correct about the fact i will be unable to keep the 3 bedroom house based on the advice that many have provided here. There seems to be no exemption at all in law, which i accept but when the time comes i will have to consult a solicitor just to make sure i guess. Many thanks to you and everyone

This is probably a stupid suggestion, but if someone succeeded to a 3 bed house and then got two lodgers, would that still be considered under occupied?

@convexhedge not a problem, if it helps and I may not be giving you the best advice here... if nothing suitable comes up or you physically under too much stress to leave you can refuse to leave and you will be there under use and occupation rather than a tenancy ( it is extremely unlikely you will be forced out if no arrears or tenancy breach's are present if you also have MH issues) which means you are still fully liable for the housing costs... if you ensure these are paid fully and on time for a period for 6 months a tenancy will then be considered. Again this is only my experience but it's worth knowing just in case

@TheYearOfSmallThings Not a silly question, I've considered it but as no-one has mentioned it so far it's probably not possible and i think i would need approval from my HA to have lodgers and they would of course see that as cheating the system and deny (I imagine, but not sure)

succeeding the tenancy is not about keeping the same property, it is tenancy rights.

if the house burnt down you still have a tenancy even if you had to live elsewhere, your tenancy would transfer to a new property.

you could get lodgers (if your tenancy allowed, and many do), but it doesn’t change your tenancy rights and requirements for social housing under succession, You and lodgers wouldn’t be seen as 1 unit.

do you have the right to buy (or does Mum?) that’s how you get to stay. If you own it. Otherwise it’s the housing associations property that your Mum is renting and you are staying in. Fab that you have looked after it, but that is usually expected and most tenants do.

you mention the work you have done as well as saying mentally and physically you couldn’t move, not sure how they balance. It’s likely the HA could support you to move, but they may also agree you could stay. It will be dependent on their policies, housing needs, your needs and housing law.

sucessions are only when tenant dies, so am conscious you may be losing your Mum and having to deal with property changes too, I hope you have support irl.

@Ilovethewild My mother has the right to acquire but we definitely don't have the funds.

For most of my life i've been very active and maintained the house, garden etc. just recently been diagnosed with autoimmune and musculoskeletal diseases with the obvious resulting mental health diagnosis from psychiatrist etc.

Yes seems like a uphill battle with not much certainty/clarity. Thanks !

The gentleman two doors down from me is in a similar predicament. His mother and father had a joint tenancy. Father has passed away and mum is in her nineties. Son has had a Kidney transplant and is unwell but he has been informed when mum passes he will be rehoused.
We have been trying to advocate for him locally (I volunteer at a food bank) but council won't budge.
This is kent and a council property.

When I worked for an HA this situation arose several times. Each time we offered the person under occupying a new build property to move to when we built new flats

@stomachameleon In that case the stress of a move could exacerbate his illness but hey if the council want that kind of publicity..........

You are correct in your understanding. They have to offer you suitable alternative accommodation. There is case law about what is considered suitable and if you look at Shelter website that will advise you as well on what you can expect. They are unlikely to agree you can stay in a 3 bed house.

Actually leaving him there is probably going to cause worse publicity. Many families have ill/disabled children etc and no choice but to live in shite temp housing, there's going to be very little sympathy for a single young man taking up more space than needed.
They're also not doing anything illegal. If notice isn't served by a certain period of time then the tenant can't be moved on.

I don't want to worry you but an older chap a couple of doors down from me lived with his DPS all his life, the DPS lived in the house from when it was built but when they died the council made the chap move out to the other side of town and into a flat due to under occupancy, all the neighbours were up in arm's but the council wouldn't back down, he's gone now, away from his friends and neighbours, the garden that he loved and the house he grew up in.
I've also just been told of another chap on our estate who's just faced the same situation, it's very sad.
I know houses are in short supply and in the ideal MN world a lovely family would move in all butterflies and roses and live happily ever after, unfortunately that's not always the case, there's a family of druggies (smell of weed makes you gag) and thugs in the first chaps house, broken windows, furniture in the front garden & feral kids making everyone's life a misery, the council and the police won't do anything, they don't even dare to approach the tenants.