Car accident - am I at fault?

[Dolly5678]

I was involved in a car accident today. I drove into the side of a car at a junction where I was turning right onto a main road. The other driver was indicating left to turn down the road I was coming out of, hence why I pulled out, but he didn’t turn left he drove straight on. I told him he was indicating left and he agreed but said he then turned it off.

An independent witness came up to me at the time of the crash and said she saw what happened and that he was at fault. I’ve submitted the claim with my insurers and they said I am technically at fault as I drove into him, regardless of whether he was indicating incorrectly. That doesn’t seem fair?!

has anyone been involved in anything similar? How much weight does an independent witness statement hold? Not as much as dash cam or video footage I’m guessing.

The guy was polite enough at the scene but I have a bad feeling about him and how this claim will go…

Insurance will rule it is your fault 100% no point arguing. Never trust an indicator.

Yep, you're fault technically. I've nearly fallen foul of this before, so now I wait until you can see the car slowing down and start to turn before I pull out.

My instructor told me never to believe the indicators and always believe the wheels.

I failed my first driving lesson for this exact reason. The tester had to slam on when the car didn't turn left. I think you are in the wrong I'm afraid.

I was involved in the same scenario- except the third party denied that her indicator was on. I asked her why I would have come out of the side road if she wasn't indicating & she didn't answer. I hit her passenger side front corner, so she must have swerved to her right - if only she'd swerved to her left!

Anyway, the insurance company agreed that I was to blame as I knew they would. It's because you (& me) were pulling out of a side road, whereas the third parties were driving straight along the road.

It's your fault. You have to check that the coast is clear before you turn, doesn't matter what his indicators are showing.

Your fault. My driving instructor used to say "it's the traffic that kills you, not the signals". Meaning that traffic lights, road markings and indicators mean nothing if the cars are actually doing something different.

I was in a very similar crash in the same position as you were. An independent witness made a statement to the insurance company stating the other party was indicating. It was found 50/50 and the other driver had to resit test as over 70 and involved in an accident.

@Dolly5678 As always, there are a lot if posters here who do not know what they're talking about...
There is very well established case law relevant to this scenario and this would suggest settlement on a 2/3, 1/3 basis in favour of the driver on the main road.
Look up Misleading Signal, Wadsworth v Gillespie.
An independent witness is always useful - if they will assist...

I nearly pulled out like this in an early driving lesson - my instructor told me firmly never to rely on what people were indicating! (The person did turn where they were indicating though). It's stuck with me, so I check they're slowing right down before pulling out. You were unlucky OP

Was going to say you might get 1/3 2/3 as per Wadsworth v Gillespie if the witness confirms a misleading signal.

It doesn't really matter what posters are talking about though.. I personally think most are correct in that OPs insurance will find her at fault for 'failure to give way'.. IME Insurance companies are utterly incompetent at investigating anything and will always choose the path of least resistance.

I think you'd need to get a solicitor involved if you wanted them to pay attention to previous case law, and even then would it be worth it in the end based on what the settlement the case law suggests? Would depend on OPs level of cover I suppose, protected no claims/legal cover etc.

I've recently had the most clear cut case of a non fault car write off as you can get (it was parked up and smashed into) and it's still been a nightmare to deal with the insurance company over it, my previous car accident was again, no fault on my part, but took a police investigation, 3 witnesses and a court case which took 6 months to get to court, and for the other driver to be found guilty of dangerous driving for the insurance company to actually believe me and rule it non fault on my part.. even though from the very beginning the collision investigation was clear cut in regards to who's fault it was, they're a nightmare to deal with and just don't listen, I wouldn't waste your breath unless you could change it to a non fault, which unfortunately you won't under these circumstances.

This really. I was told this when I first started driving 40 years ago. Don't rely on indicators. Ensure they are beginning the manoeuvre especially when they are on the major road and you are on the minor.

The thing is he may have just turn left onto the major road so his indicator may not have clicked off after performing that manoeuvre. They may be may be planning on turning left at the next turning after yours if they're close together but they need to indicate in plenty of time so the cars behind him on the main road know that he will be slowing down to make the manoeuvre. I never, ever pull out onto a main road until a car is clearly turning into my road.

Wadsworth v Gillespie (1978). The defendant was stationary at a junction waiting to enter a major road. The claimant was riding his motorbike along the main road.. The defendant noted the left indicator flashing on the claimant’s motorbike and, reacting to it, began to turn onto the main road. The claimant continued straight on and a collision occurred. The court found that the motorcyclist had accidentally knocked the indicator and was not aware it was flashing. The judge criticized the car driver for relying on the misleading signal and for not satisfying herself that the motorcyclist was indeed turning left. He also found that the claimant had failed in his duty of care, as he was proceeding along a main road giving a misleading signal. Liability apportioned one-third, two-thirds in the motorcyclists favour.
(The thing to remember here is that the judge accepted that the indicator was on accidentally.
This case needs to be distinguished from a number of others that are all quite similar, but which have small but important differences.)

Copied and pasted from True Solicitors LLB. Loads more online about it though and would guess it depends on whether the OP would go to court or whether it would sit with the insurance company?

If you drove into the side of him then he was very very close when you pulled out, close enough that you could tell he actually wasn’t turning. He hadn’t slowed to then, he hadn’t started to turn. To hit him side on, you’d have to pull out at the moment he should have been turning… but he wasn’t turning and you could see that. It’s your fault.

The indicators are just that, indications. You should be looking for the start of a manoeuvre before you pull out, don't rely on the indicators. People often leave them on accidentally or equally they click off without someone noticing.

Yeah my driving instructor said never pull out because someone is indicating. They could change their mind, have it on accidently

The best you can hope for is that he admits he was indicating and or that a witness says this. In that case it might be 50/50 as you still did not pull out when it was clear.

Worst case he lies and no witnesses come forward. In that case you will probably be found at fault.

Sorry this has happened to you OP.

Like some others, I never trust anyone indicating left into my junction. Too many people who forget to turn indicators off from previous turns, or turn them on too early when they actually want the next junction along.

My driving instructor always told me "it's an indication of where they are going to go not a guarantee" so you have to be so cautious and i think as others have said they will find you at fault. Hopefully you can argue 50/50 and I really hope you aren't injured or too shaken up OP x

to be honest I think this is getting worse, people seem to indicate incorrectly so frequently now that I swear they must be being taught to do it that way?

It's like at islands, especially smallish islands (not mini islands) if I'm going straight on and someone is coming out of the exit to my right, they indicate left so you would assume they are taking their first exit, but they don't! They go straight over, crossing my path, so they're basically indicating one exit too early? or if they are coming the opposite direction to me on the same island, they don't indicate right to show they are coming around the island, you would assume they are going straight on and I can go but they aren't, they come round the island and as they pass they have their left indicator on to show they are leaving the island, again, one exit too early. It's a weird phenomenon that I have noticed loads in the last 5 years, and it is an everyday occurrence.

That's before I even get started on people start indicating to turn left BEFORE the previous junction, which could have been what OPs idiot was doing.

I pretty much ignore peoples indicators now and just assume they are aiming for me.

The rule is you don't pull out even if someone is indicating until they are actually making the turn in. Indicators are often left on meaninglessly. Seen many lorries driving on the motorway with their indicators going for miles.

You are at fault.

I never trust indicators. I always wait for further evidence of the turn.

He had the right of way; you were in a position where you had to give way - it was your responsibility to ensure it was safe to proceed. So, your fault unfortunately.

I never trust indicators. I always wait for further evidence of the turn.

Me too

You will be at fault because it was his road and you pulled out into him, but if you think he deliberately indicated left and didn't turn left in the hope you would pull out into him, then you can say to your insurance company that you think it might be a cash for crash scam.