Threatened with court.

[CantFigureItOut]

Hi, I've tried to seeking help with two legal advice agencies but they aren't responding even after a few days and attempts.

I own a flat with a yard. The yard belongs to my apartment but upstairs have access through it. It is ringed im red as mine on the deeds but hand annotated as shared yard.

The property upstairs changed hands at auction. No idea whether the buyer viewed. He thought he could flip it but turned out he paid the top price so he is renting it.

My tenant has a dog which spends a lot of time in the yard, and the upstairs owner says that the upstairs tenant doesn't like it - apparently there is dog poo.

I've asked my tenant to keep it clean.

Upstairs owner now wants me to evict my tenant. My tenant has a newborn and another small child.

My tenant DOES want to move, but into a council property. They have been waiting and bidding for a while.

Thing is, upstairs owner is now threatening to sue me/take me to court if I don't evict them right now.

I am frightened. I don't know what to do. He is talking about his solicitor sending me letters that would cost me £500 to receive. I can't imagine how I can be liable for £500 to receive a letter.

Thanks for reading.

What happens when you get these tenants out and he takes offence at the next people to rent?

I am writing as a property developer. Please contact the Leasehold advisory service for free legal advice. You can book an appointment on their website. Dog waste is not nice but it would be a matter for the local authority environmental health to take up with the tenant. Check your lease agreement allows animals to be at the property, as it might be a breach. You can evict the tenant under section 21 (no fault) or section 8 (damage to property etc). You could use an eviction specialist, rather than a solicitor to save on costs. Your property may have legal insurance cover under the policy. I am not sure if you have a block policy or an individual landlord policy but worth ringing them to see. I had legal cover for a leasehold dispute and that saved on money. The owner upstairs will not wish to have to declare a neighbour dispute if they have plans to sell the property in the future. The owner upstairs cannot charge you on the basis of what they like. They would have to send you a pre-action letter that must comply with court procedure rules. This would be along the lines of cease and desist the nuisance but would not include a fine. It might be suggesting a settlement offer the neighbour is willing to accept for the inconvenience caused by your tenant. You don't have to agree to pay. They would then have to make a court application if they want to enforce any damages or breach, and that means persuading a judge. The judge will look at the conduct of each party in the run up to this. Consider what you say or write down moving forward. It would be for the court to decide any award of damages. The £500 threats are nonsense but keep any written threats as a judge would be very displeased about that sort of conduct. They would be unhappy if you could not show you have at least attempted to resolve the matter as this falls under anti-social behaviour. Keep to communicating in writing so you have a log of who said what. If you serve notice on your tenant, the council will tell them to stay put until the court orders the eviction and the bailiff turns up. Otherwise they risk being construed as intentionally homeless. With the demand for social housing being as it is, I wouldn't bank on the tenant bidding on council houses as leading to any prospect of them getting a place in the next decade. I mean this gently, but you are not a social worker and you are not obliged to be nice to your tenant. If they have been allowing dog waste to pile up in the yard or smoking drugs (prescribed or otherwise) outside then I can see why your neighbour would be unhappy. It has a knock-on effect on the value and appeal of his own place. You are not responsible for the welfare of this family, and you do have to be business-like in protecting your asset and relations with your neighbour. I would focus on resolving this matter to your mutual benefit. Write a letter to your tenant stating what they are doing that is upsetting the neighbour and requesting that they stop immediately or risk being reported to environmental health, and the police. If they have been telling you the cannabis is prescribed then I seriously doubt it. As a cancer patient on opiates and under specialist pain management, I can tell you that cannabis prescriptions are very hard to come by on the NHS. I have a friend who uses cannabis for severe health issues. She has been refused an NHS prescription and has to buy it privately.

I am a landlord and own a flat within a block that is otherwise owned by the local authority, which is a huge social housing provider.
One of their tenants had removed part of a chimney ( possibly to aid their cannabis growing ) which caused more of the smell to come into my flat.
When I complained they did agree to look into the chimney removal ( it had been left in the shared hall) but completely refused to acknowledge potential cannabis production or use, saying that it was a police matter.
As a responsible landlord it makes sense to do what is possible to make the tenancy as stress free as possible for all parties.
If the tenant won’t cooperate then there really isn’t that much you can actually do. The ultimate sanction at present is to issue a section 21 notice, and pursue this to court action if necessary. Once section 21’s are abolished there will be nothing you can do unless the regulations regarding anti social behaviour are much more stringent than they are currently.
I would try to ease the situation by fencing off part of the garden if possible, so that the dog does not roam free in the area needed for access, which should lessen the issue with dog mess.

Your tenants could wait years to be rehoused because of overcrowding and in the meantime they are causing a nuisance to your neighbours, it sounds like evicting them would be a good idea.

medicinal and they said the police would just say to stop self medicating. - so they are not on prescription at all then?

You can get a private cannabis prescription for weed. Perfectly legal in the UK just bit used by very many people as it's expensive

Right, just read through you very kind messages.

I'm really grateful to you all. I consider myself an intelligent woman but very emotional and I avoid confrontation for my own health.

Very interested that the threats from upstairs are a load of bunkum, AND the cannabis prescription too. I can well believe he uses it to feel better if he's down, but as I understand it cannabis is illegal, and yes it certainly stinks if you're a neighbour having to live with it.

In truth I'm not sure why they are entitled to a council house, I am not party to their private affairs.

I think the kindest eviction would be an S21 because that wouldn't preclude them from a council home in the future. I don't think they will see it thay way though, and will nevertheless be very cross with me. I think I'm going to have to ask my DH to help me because I'm really afraid. I'm the least professional landlord going on that specific point. I'm sure he will. I feel like I want to wait until after Christmas though.....

Should I successfully get them moved on, as one poster pointed out, yes what is Mr upstairs going to be like with the next tenant. Can't wait(!) I don't want to have to deal with him, he thinks he can say what he likes to me.

Regarding the lease etc. It's a converted house and so is actually a shared freehold. The rental lease unfortunately does allow a dog.

Thank you everyone. I feel much lifted up, knowing that this man has been lying to me.

Appreciate that the above doesn't make me sound very intelligent at all!

I looked into getting a private cannabis prescription, the cannabis is around £100 a month and ongoing fees of £125 every 3 months for consultations. It is also illegal to smoke the cannabis that is supplied.

OP, one of my family members receives cannabis oil on private prescription through a licensed clinic. It's for a severe neurological condition and he had to be medically examined and have quarterly check ups. He pays around £50 per prescription and it's delivered by a specialist courier.

To the best of my knowledge, the handful of UK clinics licenced to do this do not provide weed that can be smoked. It's usually oil or edible/tablet form. Your tenant might be using the term 'medicinal use' to mean they take it to help with their anxiety/depression but it doesn't sound like it's actually medically prescribed. So in that case you're very much on your rights to tell the tenant they're not allowed to smoke it in the yard or on your premises. I can see how the smell of that night irritate the apartment upstairs.

The best thing you can do is tell your tenant that from here on, there's zero tolerance for either dog poop or cannabis. Just make your best effort to keep the yard clean. And try not to worry about it too much - it really does just sound like your neighbour is bluffing!

I think your tenants are the problem to be honest. Why are they keeping a dog if they are overcrowded and why don't they clean up after it?

We had next door but one neighbours who smoked cannabis on a regular basis. The smell penetrated our house, it was vile. The constant smell of weed and dog shit must be pretty unbearable for the new tenant tbh. I think you're duty bound to sort your lot out. They all seem to be walking over you.

It doesn't make you sound stupid, it just makes you sound as though you're entirely unsuited to being a Landlord.

Is there a reason that you don't want to serve the Section 21 till after Christmas? You have to give 2 months notice on a S21. Then apply for a Possession Order, then apply for a Warrant of Possession of they don't leave. I'm not sure why you'd want to delay any of that, especially as they've told you that they want evicting.

*if

What exactly is on the deed? If the neighbours simply have the right of way, meaning they can cross the yard to access their flat then they have absolutely no say in what you (or your tenants) do with your property, so long as access is available.

Its important here to clarify what the easement specifies, and it would be quite unusual for it to be a shared yard without shared ownership. If you could post what the deed says that would help. And I would completely ignore the lawyer threats that's absolute nonsense, the only person his lawyer can charge is himself.

Do get proper legal advice.

https://www.lease-advice.org/advice-guide/service-charges-other-issues/
"costs arising in connection with a breach (or alleged breach) of the lease" can be charged back to the leaseholder.

You are a freeholder, a leaseholder and the person letting out the flat so you have 3 different hats on which is quite confusing.

Meanwhile, what does your lease say about smells/noise etc? Anything obvious to say that your tenants' behaviours are breaching it? you say that you have given the tenants permission for a dog in your rental agreement but what does your lease say about pets?

He is lying, clearly receiving a letter doesn't cost you anything, if you engage someone to reply to it there will be a cost , but that would be a price you agree. sending you a letter is no threat, he can write as much as he likes.

He can't force you to evict a tenant- who has protected rights, using your property unless the dog mess is really a hazard, and in breach of their tenancy, and i'm not legally qualified- but a family member is a landlord and they had problem tenants- students ( burning sofas in front of house), parties leaving bottles in garden, broken glass, the landlord and neighbours wanted rid of and it just wasn't that easy, with tenancy agreement they could not just throw them out, one retired neighbour took action to get them evicted and court declined after several months, and rescheduled dates when they just don't show up, instead asked them to clean up, and if they failed to do so after i think it was 8 weeks ,my uncle the landlord was to arrange it and bill tenants or take money from their deposit.

Personally i'd call his bluff say you will not be breaking any agreement as the tenant is not in breach , if he wants to take it up in courts your await the proceedings and if he proceeds with this harassment your solicitor will be looking into removing his tenants access to the yard that he knows is clearly on your deeds. as their right are only access.

@CantFigureItOut The reply from @Dibbydoos is the right answer! The neighbour is not going about this in the best way, but your tenant is breaking the law and causing a nuisance. You need to step up and act like the landlord.

I am sorry you are finding this stressful but I think the other landlord has a point. His tenant has made a complaint (and he has good reason to) and his landlord is trying to resolve the issue which you seem to be relectant to do. They are not harrassing you but trying to solve a problem. However if you do not take action he may well have a claim against you. Having tried to resolve the issue verbally and if they can prove that they have tried to, if no action is taken by you and he has no option but to take this to court, his costs maybe covered within the settlement and therefore you would be paying for his solicitors letter to you. Your tenents do not wish to change their behaviour so you should really evict them.

Thank you, but I haven't received any specifics. No photos, dates, or whatever. I have asked for photos and they are not appearing, so although I believe the nuisance, I have no evidence for an eviction, therefore how can he take action against me for not doing what he wants.

Why do you need evidence for a S21?

How is the other owner contacting you? Why is he contacting you also. Just block him. You don't have to speak to him if you don't want to. Then you'd avoid the stress.

He wants me to do an s8.

You actually can get 'flower' to smoke- it's not only oils- there are a few companies that prescribe bud- but the cost is high so seriously doubt it's prescribed to your tenant. Is there an issue with dog crap in the yard constantly? How often is it cleaned? How much time does the dog spend out there?

An S8? He's a fool. You need to be at least 8 weeks in arrears for an S8 at the time of service and court. It would also mean you are classed as voluntarily homeless.