Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Legal matters

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you have any legal concerns we suggest you consult a solicitor.

Original poster

Falls in Hospital

96 replies

FlipFlopVibe · 23/11/2023 23:44

I may have posted in the wrong place...

Can anyone advise on the correct procedure and questions we should be asking regarding a fall in an NHS hospital?

My DGM is 94 and fell on her stairs last week and broke her hip. She had a hip replacement the next day and was recovering well. My DM went to visit her today and she was totally out of it and couldn't wake her up. My DM on leaving asked the nurses about it and it turns out she fell getting out of bed during the night, hit her head and needed a CT scan. This came back clear.

No one informed my DM about the fall and we would be non the wiser had she not mentioned it. On visiting again tonight my DGM is still not conscious which the nurse said is not good and she needs to be awake more by tomorrow. Although the initial scan was clear there can be a delay in any bleed showing.

I think their care has been substandard, the guard rails on the bed can't have been on otherwise she couldn't have got out. She is very vulnerable due to age/strong painkillers and they should have taken more care to ensure her safety. What questions do we ask of the hospital to ensure this isn't just passed off?

OP posts:
MoroccoMole · 26/11/2023 20:10

What do you mean found it on her file? No one should have access to that! It's a serious breach!

SD1978 · 26/11/2023 20:14

Bed rails aren't automatically used, as they are actually a bigger risk- larger fall. The anaesthetic and operation, are actually what are more likely making her like this, than the fall. I am so,sorry to say, that mortality post hip operations is very high, because of the toll that the procedure takes. Absolutely they should have told her about the fall, and if she feels further scans are necessary she should request that, but it may be the whole situation has just taken a massive toll on her mother that may not be recoverable

TheShellBeach · 26/11/2023 20:18

Risperidone?
I can't think of a reason why a 94 yo post-op compos mentis patient would be given that.

HappyHamsters · 26/11/2023 20:20

How has your mum found this paperwork without nans permission.

BlueEyedPeanut · 26/11/2023 20:20

DNR is a medical decision. It is good practice to explain that to the patient, but at the end of the day if the medics feel resuscitation would be pointlessly traumatic they will put a DNACPR in place. This is not a "do not treat" order. It just means that if the patient goes into cardiac arrest they will not perform a brutal procedure that won't work anyway.

Original poster
FlipFlopVibe · 26/11/2023 20:20

MoroccoMole · 26/11/2023 20:10

What do you mean found it on her file? No one should have access to that! It's a serious breach!

Her file is just left with her, it's the only way my DM knows what's going on. Or not as the case may be!

When I had my baby in the same hospital last month, my file was on the end of my bed too

OP posts:
Original poster
FlipFlopVibe · 26/11/2023 20:22

HappyHamsters · 26/11/2023 20:20

How has your mum found this paperwork without nans permission.

She sits with her and they go through it together to try and piece together what's going on, it's just at the end of her bed. I had the same when I had my baby last month, it's old fashioned but seems to be the norm in this hospital

OP posts:
HappyHamsters · 26/11/2023 20:22

Are you saying that her confidential medical notes are just left at her bedside, I have never seen that in 30 years of practice.

Original poster
FlipFlopVibe · 26/11/2023 20:23

BlueEyedPeanut · 26/11/2023 20:20

DNR is a medical decision. It is good practice to explain that to the patient, but at the end of the day if the medics feel resuscitation would be pointlessly traumatic they will put a DNACPR in place. This is not a "do not treat" order. It just means that if the patient goes into cardiac arrest they will not perform a brutal procedure that won't work anyway.

Yes I know what it means but they haven't spoken to either my DGM or DM about it. Imagine looking through your own medical notes and finding that

OP posts:
Original poster
FlipFlopVibe · 26/11/2023 20:24

HappyHamsters · 26/11/2023 20:20

How has your mum found this paperwork without nans permission.

Also how come you have assumed my DG hasn't given permission?

OP posts:
Original poster
FlipFlopVibe · 26/11/2023 20:26

SD1978 · 26/11/2023 20:14

Bed rails aren't automatically used, as they are actually a bigger risk- larger fall. The anaesthetic and operation, are actually what are more likely making her like this, than the fall. I am so,sorry to say, that mortality post hip operations is very high, because of the toll that the procedure takes. Absolutely they should have told her about the fall, and if she feels further scans are necessary she should request that, but it may be the whole situation has just taken a massive toll on her mother that may not be recoverable

She's recovering really well, the fall was over a week after the hip operation. I think she had even forgotten she was in there and woke up thinking she was at home. Not that any nurses have tried to explain what happened, that's just us piecing it together.

OP posts:
HappyHamsters · 26/11/2023 20:27

Are they nursing or the full medical notes at the end of the bed.

Original poster
FlipFlopVibe · 26/11/2023 20:27

HappyHamsters · 26/11/2023 20:22

Are you saying that her confidential medical notes are just left at her bedside, I have never seen that in 30 years of practice.

Yep just left there, I'd be shocked but if they weren't just left there we wouldn't know any of this

OP posts:
Original poster
FlipFlopVibe · 26/11/2023 20:37

HappyHamsters · 26/11/2023 20:27

Are they nursing or the full medical notes at the end of the bed.

Not sure if we would know the difference between the two, I haven't been myself yet.

OP posts:
Lougle · 26/11/2023 20:44

FlipFlopVibe · 26/11/2023 20:37

Not sure if we would know the difference between the two, I haven't been myself yet.

Show quote history

Medical notes are normally written notes by medical staff. Often in a cardboard folder.

Nursing notes are often kept in an A4 folder at the end of the bed, with observation charts, fluid charts, etc.

It would be quite unusual for medical notes to be kept at the end of the bed. They should be in a locked cabinet.

BlueEyedPeanut · 26/11/2023 20:47

FlipFlopVibe · 26/11/2023 20:23

Yes I know what it means but they haven't spoken to either my DGM or DM about it. Imagine looking through your own medical notes and finding that

Show quote history

No one should be looking through her medical records. Maybe they haven't had the chance to talk to your gran about it, what with her being zonked after the surgery and the second fall. Your mum may have POA, but that doesn't take effect until your gran has officially lost capacity, which means your mother doesn't have a right to know her mother's private medical business unless she tells her.

BlueEyedPeanut · 26/11/2023 20:49

HappyHamsters · 26/11/2023 20:22

Are you saying that her confidential medical notes are just left at her bedside, I have never seen that in 30 years of practice.

I don't believe this part. The medical notes have no reason to be by the bedside. The bedside notes (obs and fluid charts etc) yes, but not the medical notes.

HappyHamsters · 26/11/2023 20:49

Medical notes are kept secure in a locked trolley with all information about the patient, admission notes, operation notes, xrays and scan results, blood results, doctors rounds, discussions held with colleagues, patients, family. Nursing notes are sometimes kept at the end of the bed with a careplan, drugchart, observations, fluid charts and relevant information but are not full notes abd anyone can read them if the patient agrees,

HappyHamsters · 26/11/2023 20:56

Maybe the best thing would be to ask who her consultant is, when their ward round is and for dm to be there to speak to the doctor with gm with any questions they have about her care and future plans.

Lougle · 26/11/2023 21:08

HappyHamsters · 26/11/2023 20:56

Maybe the best thing would be to ask who her consultant is, when their ward round is and for dm to be there to speak to the doctor with gm with any questions they have about her care and future plans.

Most wards won't allow relatives on the ward when it's ward round time because the relatives can overhear another patient's information. But making an appointment to see her consultant is a good idea, if the DGM gives consent.

WhereIsBebèsChambre · 26/11/2023 21:16

If your dgm has capacity will the medical staff not ask her if she wants her family informed about things? Did she not say herself about the fall?

HappyHamsters · 26/11/2023 21:18

Yes the doctor and nurses should make sure dgm gives consent to share information and can ask this if dm asks for updates

Original poster
FlipFlopVibe · 26/11/2023 21:49

WhereIsBebèsChambre · 26/11/2023 21:16

If your dgm has capacity will the medical staff not ask her if she wants her family informed about things? Did she not say herself about the fall?

The fall was a week after the op, between the op and the fall she was her usual self. When DM went in to see her the afternoon after the fall, DGM was unconscious and my DM couldn't get any response from her, this was completely different to what she had been the previous day. On leaving my DM passed the nurses desk and asked if it was normal and that's when she was told about the fall and urgent CT scan but that was a good 12 hours after and only because she asked otherwise we wouldn't know about it

OP posts:
Original poster
FlipFlopVibe · 26/11/2023 21:52

There seems a lot of reference to privacy and permission to view/discuss care. My DGM has a very close relationship with my DM there is absolutely nothing she would want kept from her. DGM knows my DM has her best interests at heart and wants her to advocate for her.

OP posts:
FlipFlop1987 · 26/11/2023 22:05

In nearly 2 weeks they haven’t had chance to speak to her? There was one day after the hospital fall she was very drowsy but the other 11 days no one has made any attempt to discuss anything with her