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Legal matters

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Original poster

Is this Mum stealing from her sons?

55 replies

Vanillarose1 · 27/10/2023 14:28

Sorry for the emotive title but I have my suspicions that this is exactly what MIL is doing.

DH's dad died in the 80s while working for a charitable foundation, leaving behind 3 sons - 15,13 and 9. He was a popular figure so they kindly set up an ongoing index-linked payment to support his family. This is unusual in itself as I've only ever heard of lump sum death in service payments.

The payments went to DH's Mum even though she had been divorced from his dad for some time. Makes sense as the boys were still young. However, she is still getting these payments to this day. They are now in the region of £1500 per month - they do not go to the sons. In fact, she used the money to retire at 40. She has no money worries which is not the case for her sons.

Surely the money should have been going to the sons once they reached 18? She wasn't a dependent - they were divorced! How can she still be benefiting from his death 45 years later? Something is definitely not right here and she refuses to show anyone the paperwork.

Is there anything that can be done?

OP posts:
Khanga27 · 27/10/2023 15:27

Vanillarose1 · 27/10/2023 15:06

Would this keep going up every year? And would MIL be entitled to it even though they were divorced?

Show quote history

Yes if a final salary pension then on death it would be payable to whoever is the named spouse on paperwork when first set up (even if they since divorced) as those schemes can be very rigid and the rules are based on when first a member. The pension on death would be index linked by RPI or CPI depending on the rules of the scheme. Therefore, your MIL technically has a legal right if this is the case.

If a final salary scheme as well, your DH and siblings would likely have no rights under the rules of the scheme.

Original poster
Vanillarose1 · 27/10/2023 15:28

HanSB · 27/10/2023 15:23

Why haven't your husband and his brothers raised this with their mum, if she has said that the payments were meant for his family? The best thing is that they speak with her and look at the paperwork as it's just all guessing otherwise.

That's what would happen in a normal family. However, she gets very defensive and refuses to talk about it or show them the paperwork.

OP posts:
SiobhanSharpe · 27/10/2023 15:33

In that case it sounds like she knows she's done something arong, possibly even criminal.
As PPs say it's probably too late for the sons to receive any money, short of taking her to a civil court.

Original poster
Vanillarose1 · 27/10/2023 15:35

Thank you to everyone who has responded here. It sounds very much like a final salary pension scheme and not some 'gift' because he was a jolly good chap as MIL has previously indicated. This clearly means that DH and his brothers do not have a claim and that she has just been very lucky.

Didn't want to drip feed but she was a neglectful Mum, they were not well cared for and it is hard for them to see her swanning around while they have struggled. That is all irrelevant to the legal question that you have all been so helpful with though - thank you.

OP posts:
Foodorder · 27/10/2023 15:36

SiobhanSharpe · 27/10/2023 15:33

In that case it sounds like she knows she's done something arong, possibly even criminal.
As PPs say it's probably too late for the sons to receive any money, short of taking her to a civil court.

Why would they be taking her to court? It's highly unlikely they'll have been due anything after 18yo.

I wouldn't be impressed if my DC were challenging my pension from their father

Foodorder · 27/10/2023 15:38

It sounds like she might have enjoyed letting people think she's been super clever and that these payments were something special, but in reality I think it will just be a straightforward pension arrangement.

ComtesseDeSpair · 27/10/2023 15:38

Pootles34 · 27/10/2023 15:09

Its very odd - I'm pretty sure charities are not allowed to do that sort of thing! Sounds more like she's got some income coming from some other source that she's embarrassed about, so she's made up this nonsense?

Agree, definitely sounds as though MIL has a source of income (lottery win, investments, inheritance, drug dealing, who knows!) that she doesn’t want to disclose and has made up this story - hence being unwilling to show paperwork. Presumably this supposed £1,500 a month was her only income for over two decades between giving up work at 40 and being eligible for her state pension, yet you’re confident she “has no money worries”, which doesn’t make sense - it sounds like an undisclosed source of (much more) income could explain the disparity between those two claims.

TheYearOfSmallThings · 27/10/2023 15:40

I would guess he had a workplace pension with associated life insurance, and that his ex wife was the named nominee to receive his benefits in the event of his death. If he chose not to change this after their divorce she would receive the payments regardless of whether they were married.

TheYearOfSmallThings · 27/10/2023 15:41

Also it is likely the policy would ultimately be with some large insurer, and that the payments are from them rather than the employing charity.

Carpediemmakeitcount · 27/10/2023 15:46

Vanillarose1 · 27/10/2023 15:06

Would this keep going up every year? And would MIL be entitled to it even though they were divorced?

Show quote history

Yes if she was written into it.

Auntpodder · 27/10/2023 15:47

Could your DH contact the charity asking to know more about his father’s role with it and start a dialogue that way.

Original poster
Vanillarose1 · 27/10/2023 15:53

Auntpodder · 27/10/2023 15:47

Could your DH contact the charity asking to know more about his father’s role with it and start a dialogue that way.

That's what he wants to do. If we get any resolution I'll post an update.

OP posts:
Auntpodder · 27/10/2023 15:54

Please do, hope it goes well and good luck…

DelphiniumBlue · 27/10/2023 15:56

Could DH contact the company founder, I think you said he had been a close friend of the dad?

shardash · 27/10/2023 15:57

If your DH is supposed to have been one of the beneficiaries, then I can't see any reason why he shouldn't contact the charitable foundation regarding his late father and ask for clarification. He needs to make clear that the payments were supposed to be for the benefit of his children, but since they were too young when it was set up, the payments went to his divorced wife instead. He needs to ask what should have happened to those payments once the children became adults themselves.

Original poster
Vanillarose1 · 27/10/2023 15:57

DelphiniumBlue · 27/10/2023 15:56

Could DH contact the company founder, I think you said he had been a close friend of the dad?

He died a few years after DH's Dad unfortunately, according to google.

OP posts:
Blueblell · 27/10/2023 15:59

Sounds like an embellished family story that has perpetuated. More likely a pension she was given as part of the divorce settlement?

StarlightLime · 27/10/2023 16:00

shardash · 27/10/2023 15:57

If your DH is supposed to have been one of the beneficiaries, then I can't see any reason why he shouldn't contact the charitable foundation regarding his late father and ask for clarification. He needs to make clear that the payments were supposed to be for the benefit of his children, but since they were too young when it was set up, the payments went to his divorced wife instead. He needs to ask what should have happened to those payments once the children became adults themselves.

He has no idea what the payments were for, or who the intended beneficiary was! He's in no position to be "making it clear" to anybody.

londonmummy1966 · 27/10/2023 16:03

My guess would be that there is a combination of a pension scheme and a life insurance policy (the two might be related) that have been combined to buy the nominated beneficiary an annuity. Might even have been agreed as part of the divorce arrangments -not unusual when an ex-spouse would be left with the children as their maintenance payments would stop with the father's death.

AnitaDeepali · 27/10/2023 16:47

I had something similar. Was supposed to be mine when I turned 18 but I wasn't told about its existence and my mum kept it for herself!

OhComeOnFFS · 27/10/2023 16:58

Did their divorce actually go through?

stayathomer · 27/10/2023 17:34

Are you sure they’re divorced not separated?

Original poster
Vanillarose1 · 27/10/2023 17:41

OhComeOnFFS · 27/10/2023 16:58

Did their divorce actually go through?

Yes definitely divorced. Despite having a new partner of many years, she still bemoans that divorcing DH's Dad was the worst thing that she ever did. In fact, this situation only raised its head again because she put a post on the family WhatsApp group congratulation herself on her anniversary (despite being the one who initiated the divorce and living with another man!) DH was not impressed and it led to another discussion about the mystery payments.

OP posts:
Original poster
Vanillarose1 · 27/10/2023 17:41

AnitaDeepali · 27/10/2023 16:47

I had something similar. Was supposed to be mine when I turned 18 but I wasn't told about its existence and my mum kept it for herself!

This is fascinating - can you tell us a bit more about your situation please?

OP posts:
Climbingthehillfast · 27/10/2023 18:34

have you seen who the payee is on a statement? Looked up news articles at the time?