DWP asking for incorrect payment back 3 months after someone's died

[Anselma]

My 97 year old mother died 3 months ago, she was on benefits and lived in sheltered housing. Her estate amounted to a few thousand pounds in Premium Bonds and a small amount in her bank account. Funeral was prepaid.

We (my mother, me and my 5 siblings) had agreed that any money she left would be divided between her younger grandchildren, and that I, as the eldest "child" should deal with the finances.
When her death was registered the registrar said that relevant organisations including the council and DWP would be informed immediately.

Since then I've refunded housing benefit overpayments, and paid debts due. Three days ago I assumed enough time had elapsed and distributed the money that was left to the grandchildren.

Today have had a letter from DWP Debt Centre about my mothers Pension Credit asking for me to pay them money that was "incorrectly paid into the nominated bank" ie my mother's bank, after she had died.

Am I liable for this payment?

Thanks will look into that, although will have to gear myself up for the circle of hell that is Santander customer services phone lines.

When an account is frozen on death money can still go in but not out I think .

There is lots of good stuff online about administering an estate and probate and what happens / what you are meant to do - it was a UK government website I think and also I would expect Santander to have a website area on the relevant issues .

https://www.gov.uk/probate-estate/settling-debts-and-taxes

My mother died and DWP contacted us about an overpayment which amounted to thousands. This was well over six months after her death

If you can prove the money didn't go into the account after her death then they need to contact the bank to have it refunded

Years ago I closed my account they tried to pay money into the wrong account (the closed one) it sat there at the bank waiting to be recalled they didn't return it

Yes I'll do that, thanks. I've got nothing to lose by writing to them.
Also will point out that the funds would be available if they'd contacted me as soon as they were informed of the death, to advise me how long to wait before distributing the money.

I'm sorry for your loss, but I'm afraid it makes no difference how long it takes the DWP to discover the overpayment, or what happened with the Tell Us Once service.

It isn't the DWP's error, or anyone's really, and it happens all the time. I had to pay back some pension after my mum passed away and it didn't occur to me to question it. It's a sum of money to which the beneficiaries of the estate have no entitlement - taxpayers' money - that needs to be returned one way or another. I'd pay it back as soon as you can and move on.

No. Nothing can go in or out.

How is the letter worded, is it a request or a demand?

There's a certain type of letter they send out, where it's not actually saying you must pay. If the letter is ignored they don't chase it up.

I did it via Tell Us Once when DH died, I did it on the day I was given the code but it still took a while for his PIP to stop so I had to make a repayment. I am sorry you find yourself in this situation, it is the last thing you need when you think you've done everything you should. The fog of bereavement is hard enough without the whole minefield of stopping benefits etc, it really should be a smoother operation in this day and age.

I think HMRC took 18 months to claim some additional IHT from us. Fuckers.

I am sorry you find yourself receiving this. As others have said unfortunately you need to wait quite sone time - I know when I was joint executor of my late Aunts estate the solicitor advised quite a wait after probate as he said lots of government agencies take a long time to contact you after probate and if I distributed too quickly I could have problems

Here's part of the letter, what do you think?

It doesn't seem to be a demand, perhaps not even a request, for payment. It does seem to be carefully worded, perhaps to avoid giving offence to bereaved people.

Also I've just noticed that the letter is dated 29/09/2023 so it's taken nearly two weeks to arrive!

Out of interest what’s the rules on how much funerals can cost? Just thinking if you had a small estate with debt would be tempting to splash out on funeral rather than “waste” it paying back debt.

There is provision for funeral costs to be paid before probate is granted - I had to submit the funeral director’s invoice to the bank for the frozen account to pay it directly. This included the basic costs only, not extras like flowers or funeral cars. I would think the same would apply in the scenario you describe, so no splashing out to avoid refunding overpayments.

It is similar to what I received and I paid it back the same day by bank transfer.

They are asking you to repay the amount overpaid. It's as simple as that. The fact that they have worded it politely, and may not pursue the matter quickly (or at all?) does not mean that the sum is not owed by the estate.

There's an article here on MSE although it applies to the state pension and not pension credit.

I guess it would depend on whether you would want to make a prompt payment and get it out of the way, or if you'd be happy to wait a few weeks and see if they send a further request...

The rule is that funeral expenses should be reasonable and proportionate. If the estate is worth, say, £10,000 with large debts, it would not be reasonable to spend £9,900 on the funeral. Note also that a gravestone is not part of the funeral expenses, so other creditors must be paid before a gravestone can be purchased.

This is correct.

See your update op. They’re asking for it back- you don’t have to pay it. Just ignore the letter if you’ve distributed funds etc. You informed them via registrar so it is their ‘fault’ it’ll be marked unrecoverable overpayment. It’s a request not a demand.

The payment could quite well have gone in within those 'few days' - if you have checked the bank statement over the relevant period it will probably show it.

Obviously you did not have to go to probate as the money left was small but it is still a good idea to ensure that no money went in or out of the account immediately after death.

The registrar does not notify every debtor or creditor or government organisation immediately and probably not within a matter of days. Even if they are notified - the DWP are notoriously slow (WFH?)
It was money to which the estate was not entitled to distribute and needs to be repaid.

The registrar does not notify every debtor or creditor or government organisation immediatelyand probably not within a matter of days. Even if they are notified - the DWP are notoriously slow (WFH?)

Not only WFH slowing things down, but the school summer holidays may have contributed, too! Not only with parents taking time off work, but also WFH parents taking the mickey and doing less actual work.

I know HMRC shut down their self assessment helpline over Summer due to "staff shortages", and presume other government departments also suffered in the same way.

This is sadly the "new normal" from organisations offering "family friendly" working arrangements - they basically go into hibernation during school holidays due to lack of staff!

Yes you will be liable. That is money owing to the state that you have erroneously distributed to your family. It needs to be paid back.