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Legal matters

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Neighbours trespassing

45 replies

Kam610 · 02/10/2023 15:00

We moved into a property at the beginning of the year. We have some land which comprises of fields and also some woods and ponds. It is all fenced off, and the woods and ponds are not accessible from the road that is nearby. Our neighbours live across a small burn which is down beside our ponds. They built some steps at their side of the fence, so they could climb over onto our land and access the ponds and woodlands. This was done probably a few years ago while the previous property owners were here, but they never said anything about it. However we have a huge problem with this. We spent a lot of money to buy this property and don't like the fact that our neighbours are using it. We have expressed to them that we don't want anyone walking on our land, but have still caught them a few times and they have scurried their way back over the fence. They have always had lame excuses for why they were over on our side. Today I was snooping on the woman's Facebook page and saw that she had posted a video of her and her cats (?) out for their daily walk, which was clearly on our land!
I have taken screenshots of this for evidence. But what can we actually do? I know it's not a legal matter, so can't report to police. We have told them and made it clear we don't want them on our land but they continue to do it. I'm worried about something happening to them while they are on our land and us being liable.

OP posts:
Theunamedcat · 02/10/2023 16:32

Horse shit under leaves where they step down off their cheeky steps

They are bringing their cat to walk? What if you have a dog? Maybe play a bark track in the area?

FSTraining · 02/10/2023 16:41

You need to determine whether or not the land can be excluded from public access rights. Speak to a solicitor, provide a detailed account of the land to them and ask whether a court is likely to declare that the land concerned may not be accessed by the public if you sought such a ruling.

Until that time, there is nothing you can do because you do not yet know whether they have a public access right to your land.

Kam610 · 02/10/2023 17:23

Cottagecheeseisnotcheese · 02/10/2023 16:13

in Scotland right to roam isn't about needing access it is about a right to roam aimlessly or with a purpose of getting from A to B or just a stroll. However this right does not extend to what is called the curtailage of a property this would be formal gardens garages workshsops barns stables yards, farm yards etc
it depends on the acreage if you have 1-2 acres of definitely formal gardens then there is not a right to roam within them even to access ground which is right to roam but if you have formals gardens then some woodland they might well have a right to roam in the woodland. We have a simlar situation we have 2 acres of walled garden around house then own a few more acres of woodland outside the wall, they do not have the right to walk up our driveway or through our garden to access them they have to be accessed over other land with a right to roam. It is very rare we find people in our woodland but people do have a right to roam on foot by bicycle or horseback, not with a car or quad bike though, I have a feeeling that the fields woodlands and ponds are within the right to roam however they can't build steps, erect stiles etc on your land, you are not responsible for their safety so long as you have not made anything as a trap or a definite hazard, an electric fence would need to have a reason and be labelled ie it is to stop your horses leaving the field, you can't put up fences just to stop neighbours accessing the woodland. Consult a solicitor as rarely would a woodland not have the right to roam

Edited

Thanks for clarifying. My knowledge on right to roam isn't great, it's not something I've ever needed to look into until now. It wouldn't be classed as a garden i don't think, but we do have a wooden cabin down there which has a bedroom, kitchen etc and overlooks one of the ponds so I don't know if that could be something that prevents access to them?

OP posts:
Kam610 · 02/10/2023 17:25

Cottagecheeseisnotcheese · 02/10/2023 16:21

if the steps are on their side of the fence you can't remove them. it doesn't matter how much you paid for the land only the garden garages etc are excluded from right to roam. and of course if neighbours also have some woodland OP can wander in it but not their garden.

They built them on both sides of the fence, so they are on our land. As a PP previously mentioned, I may need to ask them to remove them first and if they don't then we can remove them.

OP posts:
Heelenahandbasket · 02/10/2023 17:31

Kam610 · 02/10/2023 17:25

They built them on both sides of the fence, so they are on our land. As a PP previously mentioned, I may need to ask them to remove them first and if they don't then we can remove them.

Usually the right to roam prevents you from removing access. Check with a specialist solicitor if this land is covered.

Scrowy · 02/10/2023 17:39

There's two separate things going on here -

you probably can't prevent access in the sense they can open the gate and walk in (status of the cabin allowing) to use it recreationally.

What you will probably have some say over though is that they can't just create their own access and build a structure crossing from their land to your land without your permission.

I'd fight that battle first rather that the right to access issue - if they lose their easy access from their garden they might not use it as much anyway.

NigelHarmansNewWife · 03/10/2023 09:38

Heelenahandbasket · 02/10/2023 17:31

Usually the right to roam prevents you from removing access. Check with a specialist solicitor if this land is covered.

Surely the possibility of a right to roam over the OP's land would have come up during the purchase process? This sounds like a total red herring to me.

Cottagecheeseisnotcheese · 03/10/2023 10:01

the right to roam is general throughout Scotland there would be no need for this to crop up specifically in property purchase, earlier the OP acknowledged that she misunderstood right to roam ( she thought it was just if people needed access it was a right) her cabin in woodland is hers there is no right of access to cabin.
The right to roam extends to wild camping ( generally no more than 3 nights) but you can't leave mess behind in fact the code says there should be no trace that you have been there, neither can you light a fire if it will damage landowners property and collecting fallen timber is alos generally not allowed as it is removing part of natural environment or there is a general warning not to light fires because of the risk of wild fires, foraging is only allowed for personal consumption not onward sale so you can pick enough blackberries to eat but not so many as to make jam for sale also you can not remove the roots/ bulbs / take cutttings or damage plant in any way
The right to roam means the landowner can not block access to people wishing to exercise this right you can't enclose your land with 6' fences and remove gates, stiles etc. The right to roam includes nearly all land (that is not a house and it's garden and outbuildings and things like quarries schools railways construction sites, airfields military bases you can't trample crops so you need to walk around the edge of a field and you can't let your dog worry animals whether in fields or open moorland or hillside) so nearly all moorland mountains farm land woodland forests inland water etc

NigelHarmansNewWife · 03/10/2023 10:09

Does the right to roam cover everywhere or is it restricted in some way?

Cottagecheeseisnotcheese · 03/10/2023 10:09

@Kam610 I do not think you can remove the steps on your land either as the landowner can't block access so any stile or gate has to remain, in fact it is your responsibilty as a landowner to make sure the access to land covered under right to roam is not blocked also the right to roam extends to most inland water ie your ponds

The right to roam is specifically for recreation so walking their dog etc is well within this right. I do not think they are doing this to annoy you but because they have always done this whoever owned property and it's a legal right so there would be no reason for them to stop as they are not damaging your property in any way.

they have no right of access to your cabin, whether the cabin can technically have it's own mini garden is something for you to check as it's in the woodland, they certainly can't sit in it or use it but you probably can't reasonably claim it needs an acre garden round it either

Mrburnshound · 03/10/2023 10:17

What happens if you have a dog loose? Are you supposed to keep it with you or can it run anywhere like you could on your property in england?

Cottagecheeseisnotcheese · 03/10/2023 10:19

@NigelHarmansNewWife it is restricted in some ways as listed above, the main garden to house ( lawned area vegetable patch flower beds etc), depending on size of house this could be as large as 1-2 acres. all outbuildings like OP's cabin, garages sheds stables farmyards, barns.
There is a code about leaving no trace shutting gates dogs under control not disturbing wildlife or domestic livestock or crops
so in England a field of wheat might have a right of way diagonally across the field so farmer must maintain as that is the only legal route through the field, in Scotland the right to roam means not damaging crops so you would be expected to walk around the edge of the field to diagonally opposite point not through the crops
There are different rules for open spaces like golf courses tennis courts railways quarries school playing fields etc

you have a reasonable expectation of privacy so if you can see into a house you are too close

you can't walk across the garden or up driveways to access the moorland unless there is a specific right of way you need to walk around the garden

you can't park so though you can wild camp with a tent you can't drive your camper van or caravan on or park in gateways etc

Cottagecheeseisnotcheese · 03/10/2023 10:22

The owner can have their dog loose on their own property but it can't be used to intimidate or restrict access with beware of dog signs but if you are exercising your right to roam your dog must be under control at all times and on a lead when going through livestock or in ground bird nesting season

herownworstenemy · 03/10/2023 12:32

Motion detecting sprinklers for pest control are pretty cheap on Amazon, and you'll need a camera with a motion sensor so you can enjoy the footage of her getting a soaking every time she invades your space.

Poppyblush · 04/10/2023 06:50

Put up a private property sign and block their entrance in your side with logs

Autumn1990 · 04/10/2023 06:59

If you want a camera to check when they are accessing your land you can buy a trail camera. You need to spend about £200 it will take video or photos depending on how you set it up and it’s triggered movement. It saves the images to a memory card which you then take out and check on a computer. It require no wifi, mobile signal or electricity

LaurieStrode · 04/10/2023 07:47

Coolblur · 02/10/2023 16:25

SM4173 'small burn' = 'little stream'. You could have googled that or just worked it out from the context 🙄

This is a discussion forum, so it's absurd to chastise members for asking a question.

AgentProvocateur · 04/10/2023 08:38

If you are genuinely worried about something happening and you being held liable, a water hazard sign at the ponds would be a good idea, however generally speaking, “longstanding, natural and obvious features” would not be considered a danger for which you need to take steps to prevent being liable for.

Ignore all the frothers talking about sprinklers, cameras, blocking access etc and have a word with your lawyer about your responsibilities as a landowner and right to roam legislation.

SM4713 · 04/10/2023 12:14

Coolblur · 02/10/2023 16:25

SM4173 'small burn' = 'little stream'. You could have googled that or just worked it out from the context 🙄

Maybe before being so rude to someone asking a genuine question, you should have googled 'small burn' or 'small burn meaning' and had a look what actually came up!
I DID google it before asking the question and this is what came up! I was unaware from the OP they were in Scotland, nor had any clue a burn meant a stream! In my 45yrs, I've never heard the term!

Burns and scalds - NHS (www.nhs.uk)

nhs.uk

Burns and scalds

Burns and scalds are damage to the skin caused by heat. Both are treated in the same way.

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/burns-and-scalds/

backinthebox · 04/10/2023 12:30

Right to Roam is a thing in Scotland. Others here have explained it well. It may be frustrating to have bought land in Scotland without realising this, but I would say it would be a good thing to become very well acquainted with the rules surrounding it very quickly, especially if you want to maintain a good relationship with your neighbours. If you feel they are venturing into parts of your property that are excluded from Right to Roam (your garden, farmyard, etc) then you can ask them to stay out. I think you would need specialist advice to confirm this, not just asking random people on the internet (some of whom have rather alarmingly suggested several ways of ‘defending your property in a way which would put you in breach of the law and at risk of causing harm to your neighbours and anyone else innocently exercising their right to roam.)

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