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Negligence ? Unfair ? Should we complain ?

31 replies

LanaL · 03/09/2023 13:59

Hi
Im after some advice regarding an experience with the NHS . This isn’t because we want money , but feel that things have happened as a result of maybe failings but I’m unsure as it’s a situation I’ve never been in so really just after some advice .

My husband had an accident - he had broken bones but the most significant are his shoulder and hip , both broken . He was in hospital and had surgery on his hip . Some of the things I detail here may not be necessarily important in the story but it’s also me getting things off my chest as it’s been an awful time.
Before surgery we were told that a general anaesthetic was risky due to issues with his lungs and ribs. He was moved on to a ward late on the evening after being in hospital for 24 hours and by this point he was having a lot of pain relief and quite ‘out of it’ - concious , but not making a lot of sense . When I left the hospital on the evening I was told doctors would be round at 9ish so he probably wouldn’t be having surgery before visiting started at 11am . I said I wanted to be there as he was very scared, I was told I couldn’t go on the ward before 11 but it probably wouldn’t be surgery before then . The next day at 910 I got a frantic call from him saying that he was going to surgery right then . I raced to the hospital , when I got there I was told it was delayed and they didn’t know when it was delayed until but I couldn’t go in to him until 11. I said I assumed I would have to be there for consent etc but was told no, he’s able to do that himself - I was a bit unsure as he was really affected by the pain relief but still wasn’t allowed in. I went in at 11 and he was about to be taken down, I saw him just as he was being wheeled down and he told me he was having surgery on his shoulder as well as his hip , having a general anaesthetic and would be 6 hours. No nurse would tell me anything , I was scared as he had signed consent and I didn’t know if he had signed anything saying it was riskier etc . He had no way of contacting me when he woke up so I asked the nurses if they could call me when he woke so I could go home ( I have children ) they point blank refused , quite rudely , and said I would have to just keep coming up to the ward to check . I did , i stayed at the hospital the whole time and kept going up to check - it was made clear to me that I was being annoying. After 5 hours I came up and was told he was out but in intensive care . Long story short he was in intensive care for 2 days with pneumonia but I didn’t know he had pneumonia ( was told oxygen levels were too low ) until his discharge from hospital 10 days later . Apparently they told him but he has no recollection. Just to add I know he’s an adult but I just thought I should have been around for these conversations as his wife and next of kin- for context he later told me he vaguely remembers signing consent and remembers panicking on the way to surgery as he was convinced the doctors were going to take all of his organs to sell - that shows his state of mind at the time .

Anyway, after surgery on a hip they usually get patients to begin being mobile on crutches asap but as his upper body was broken both sides this wasn’t possible. They discharged him after 10 days . I repeatedly tried to get someone to talk to me about his care at home - I told nurses he had no bed downstairs , no bathroom , and would be sleeping on a sofa and that we had a large step into our house and I was scared how he would manage. He can’t go upstairs , he can’t move around except very slowly moving from bed to chair . The physio came to see him twice but always outside of visiting , so I wasn’t there . He told them about the step , the bed situation etc . They told him he could HOP up the step into the house with one crutch ( his shoulder was broken and in a sling , the same side as his broken hip , all his ribs the other side are broken ) and HOP down it. I reiterated the danger of the step , nurses told me he needed step training this didn’t happen . No one spoke to me about the situation at home , no risk assessment was done. They ordered a commode for home and a stool that was it. They told him hopping was fine and going out in the car , wheelchair etc with me would be good for his mental health . They knew he was coming into the house with just me and had to go up and down that step each time we went out , we had hospital appointments etc . The nurse repeated to me what physio had said to him but despite attempts I could not so get to speak to anyone regarding this. They did not offer transport home . Also whilst all this was going on he was really dazed on morphine , he thought he was on a cruise ship , he thought animals were on the ward with him , he was falling asleep for seconds every few mins . They only stopped morphine on the day of discharge so all of this info he had from physio was when he was like this . He came home , got in ok with help from a friend too . The next day I had to go out and was scared of leaving him alone . As the physio had said he was capable of going in and out we decided to take him with me as advised was ok and worried about leaving him home but when it came to the step even after following advice , he fell. Straight on to his hip and shoulder and had to call an ambulance to go back in .

( A side note , during his second hospital stay he was taken for a scan . Someone ‘forgot’ to put his bed in transport mode so when he got down to the scan his bed was deflating , he was in agony he said as they moved him and then they put him back on to the deflated bed. When he came back to the ward , he was completely sunken into the bed , the nurse was shocked and said all she could do was wait for it to inflate again . She took me to one side and apologised and said he would be in a lot of pain now as he was effectively just lay on metal . They put him back on the bed when it was deflated )

He was back in for another 10 days . He damaged all the pins in his hip. His hip is actively deteriorating. The hospital did not know how to go forward so transferred his care to a surgical reconstruction team at another hospital but before they saw him they discharged him again . The doctor who first saw him on readmission said he can’t go home until they know it’s safe as this can’t happen again . But it was the same situation - physio seeing him when I’m not there , knowing he still had the step , they said they would order him a ramp but wouldn’t be here when he came home . They knew he would have to do the same thing to get in that had caused a fall, this time with more damage than before . I couldn’t get anywhere with talking to them . He suggested to them that he have the wheelchair in the house on the step so he can sit in it and they said that would be ok . HE SUGGESTED THAT . No advice from them other than the ramp but knowing that ramp wasn’t here or they said to get someone to put an extra step in . I was petrified . I feel like we were just left . I have a friend who is an OT who told me all the risk assessments they should do - checking the height of our sofa , checking he could safely get in and move around , showing us how to get in and out of the car . None if this was done . They sent him home knowing he was getting into the house the same unsafe way , that 2 days later he had to get out again for an appointment.

Luckily , using the chair worked and he can now get safely in and out . As we were leaving hospital a nurse said “ has anyone told you about your shoulder “ …. Turns out he had also damaged his shoulder and would probably need more surgery . No doctor told us that .

Fast forward to the appointment at the other hospital - we found out that his hip had deteriorated even more since the fall - the fall is the cause of all I’m about to say . They can’t repair it . They have 2 options , one is to let it heal . If they let it heal ( if it stops deteriorating ) his one leg will be significantly shorter than the other and leave him with lifelong mobility issues ( permanent limp , permanently walking with sticks ,a special built up shoe ) . There will be no chance of him returning to his career , a career he has built up and progressed in that is quite physical , the doctor said he will not be able to do that . Let alone the emotional effects . He will still have to have a replacement in 15 years anyway but he’s 35 so that’s the prime of his life with a disability and unable to work until he’s 50 . If they do the replacement he would have none of those issues and be up about about within 6 weeks .

He broke down in the doctors room and said can they just do the replacement as he can’t live like that , we have children , he won’t be able to play with them , he won’t be able to work - in an emotionally charged moment he said “ I’ll kill myself if I have to live like that “ and the doctor said “ that’s not justification to do a replacement “ . Basically unless it continues to deteriorate they won’t do it. We’re back in a few weeks to see how it’s going .

At the end of the appointment the doctor was about to let us go and my husband said “ what about my shoulder , the nurse said it needs surgery ? “ it was like it was the first the doctor heard of it. He looked at the scans and said he needed to get a specialist in . In a nutshell the specialist then told him that he needs surgery asap within the next week or so , with surgery he will have 80% function in n his arm - lifelong - and if it had been left he would have lost full function .

A few days later , the doctor from the original hospital called him to “check” that the new hospital were going to be doing something about his arm . Maybe I’m over stressed and tired , but to me that seems like he was covering his back .

Our lives are upside down . He’s very newly self employed with no insurance he had only been self employed 5 weeks . We have nothing , we’ve gone on to benefits and I will be working at some point again hopefully but I’ve not been able to I’m pretty much his carer and I’m so scared of going back to work and leaving him alone all day , every day - especially as after the shoulder op he will be even more limited as it’s 12 weeks recovery . All of this now is due to the fall as he was healing nicely before that . Part of me thinks - is it me , did I not do enough , he shouldn’t have been home with that step but then I tried my damn hardest to speak to someone, I told the nurses , my husband told the doctor, physio … we followed the “expert” advice , I’m not a doctor !

Does someone need to be accountable for this ? Even just so it doesn’t happen to anyone else . Can I do anything about the refusal of the replacement as it’s going to ruin his life if he doesn’t . I don’t know what to do .

OP posts:
Porageeater · 03/09/2023 14:17

Your poor husband. I’m so sorry this has happened. My first thought - is there a carers support organisation in your area that you could get some advice from? You could do with some independent advice with this

LanaL · 03/09/2023 14:33

Thank you . I’m not sure , I wouldn’t even know where to begin , I will try to have a look though x

OP posts:
maximist · 03/09/2023 14:41

Have you contacted PALS at the hospital? They should be able to advise you.

NumberTheory · 03/09/2023 21:56

I would talk to a solicitor who specializes in medical negligence to see if you have a case. You will be significantly out of pocket for the rest of your lives and money will help your husband and the rest of your family live a life that would more closely resemble the one you would have had without the fall. It may, for instance, cover a hip replacement now. A good solicitor will help you assess if you have a good case and how much to ask for. And give you an idea of how tricky it would be to pursue (I have heard people say it’s pretty draining).

A monetary award is also more likely to make them change their practices that a PALS complaint, though I don’t think it’s bad to go that route.

LanaL · 04/09/2023 10:37

NumberTheory · 03/09/2023 21:56

I would talk to a solicitor who specializes in medical negligence to see if you have a case. You will be significantly out of pocket for the rest of your lives and money will help your husband and the rest of your family live a life that would more closely resemble the one you would have had without the fall. It may, for instance, cover a hip replacement now. A good solicitor will help you assess if you have a good case and how much to ask for. And give you an idea of how tricky it would be to pursue (I have heard people say it’s pretty draining).

A monetary award is also more likely to make them change their practices that a PALS complaint, though I don’t think it’s bad to go that route.

Thank you . I did think about being able to pay for a replacement if we did get any form of compensation but then I also have guilt over suing the NHS for money when they are already struggling . Compensation is not at the front of my mind but then I keep talking to people who keep saying that I need to remember how our finances are so negatively impacted by all this and that if he weren’t discharged unsafely then this wouldn’t have happened . Everything is so overwhelming right now I’m coping day to day financially , we are living on a universal credit advance and I’m burying my head in the sand about how we’re going to cope with the upcoming bills ( we’ve also just had a big rent increase ) I’m focusing on keeping my husband happy and just telling him not to worry about money just focus on getting well but at night , I’m not sleeping and I’m crying at the thought of everything . We have a high amount of credit card debt , things on finance - because we could afford it and now it’s all just left unpaid and no way of paying . I do work but I work with an agency so I don’t get paid if I don’t work , and I am certainly going to have to work less now for a while at least and I haven’t been able to work any more than 4 days these whole summer holidays x

OP posts:
notapizzaeater · 04/09/2023 10:59

I'd start by getting pals involved and see what they suggest.

The NHS pays into an insurance policy for claims, but that's not your problem / worry.

Fizzadora · 04/09/2023 11:52

Just wanted to bump this up. I think you should speak to PALS and possibly a medical negligenice solicitor ASAP.

Primproperpenny · 04/09/2023 12:07

How did he get home in the first place before the fall? Did you drive him? I’d have refused to take him. He should have been sent to some kind of rehab facility, like the old cottage hospitals, to learn to walk again. The NHS have just caused themselves a whole load of grief by trying to cut corners.

If he hadn’t had a partner, there’s no way the hospital could have sent him home. For the purposes of his treatment, and getting some proper help, I would call adult SS, tell them you’ve left him and he is alone and vulnerable. Someone should step in.

vivainsomnia · 04/09/2023 12:58

Firstly, he should have had a occupational therapist assessing the home. You mention physio. Are you sure he didn't have a OT assessment? It is highly likely that this should have been carried by social care rather than the NHS, or a joint team. You need to enquire about this.

Secondly you say the physio stated he could hop the step. Was this written in any paperwork? Could she gave meant with the wheelchair? Did she stipulated how to 'hop'.

Ultimately, it comes down to this. Was your oh following therapist advice about going over the step and that advice caused the accident. Can you prove it.

grapesandplums · 04/09/2023 13:10

Had a friend try to start the medical negligence route recently. The solicitor advised her that you have to complain to PALS first, with all the details you've included here. Dates, names, etc and then give them a chance to investigate and respond. Once you have received their response, you can then take the case to solicitors and they will then decide whether they will take the case. They only seem to take cases they feel they are going to win for obvious reasons. However, as a previous poster has stated, this has ruined your husbands life. You repeatedly warned them this could happen, you have had terrible treatment and I really think you should drive this forward. There should be someone accountable for this. I wish you every success

PinkFootstool · 04/09/2023 13:33

How did he originally end up so inured? What was the cause of the accident?

SirChenjins · 04/09/2023 13:38

Bloody hell - that’s awful. I’d start with the formal complaints route - your hospital should be able to advise how to start this. You could also have a preliminary chat with a lawyer who specialises in medical negligence to see what they suggest.

LanaL · 04/09/2023 13:48

Yes , I drove him . A hospital porter bought him downstairs to me on a hospital wheelchair x

OP posts:
WhatapityWapiti · 04/09/2023 13:50
  1. As mentioned upthread, any claim against the NHS will come out of their insurance so you can put out of your mind any worry about claiming money from them.
  2. what was the cause of the original accident? Is there a potentially liable party there? Yes, it sounds like the treatment failings exacerbated it but sometimes it’s better to pursue multiple defendants for strategic reasons. A solicitor can advise. Irwin Mitchell are a good form with nationwide presence.
  3. If you haven’t done so already, I would advise you to prepare a full chronology, with details of everything that happened on each date. That will make an initial consultation with a solicitor much easier. Your narrative above is a good start. Do 3 columns-date, event, supporting documents. If multiple things happened on one day use a separate row for each.
  4. Sometimes with personal injury claims you won’t be able to quantify your losses for a while, until after the long term effects have become clear, but a good solicitor can look into getting you interim payments and appointing a case manager to advise on immediate needs, so it’s worth getting the advice as early as possible. If the case is strong they should agree to a no win no fee agreement, which is perfectly fine if offered by a reputable firm.
  5. sorry this has happened, good luck. The above comes from my experience as a solicitor (not a personal injury specialist) who helped a family member bring a personal injury claim.
LanaL · 04/09/2023 13:51

vivainsomnia · 04/09/2023 12:58

Firstly, he should have had a occupational therapist assessing the home. You mention physio. Are you sure he didn't have a OT assessment? It is highly likely that this should have been carried by social care rather than the NHS, or a joint team. You need to enquire about this.

Secondly you say the physio stated he could hop the step. Was this written in any paperwork? Could she gave meant with the wheelchair? Did she stipulated how to 'hop'.

Ultimately, it comes down to this. Was your oh following therapist advice about going over the step and that advice caused the accident. Can you prove it.

We weren’t told anything about an OT assessment . He said the 2 physios came down twice and they are who he spoke to . I’m not sure if it’s wrote down anywhere - certainly not on anything we have . Nothing about his home situation , advice etc in discharge notes it just states no weight bearing x

OP posts:
LanaL · 06/09/2023 08:28

maximist · 03/09/2023 14:41

Have you contacted PALS at the hospital? They should be able to advise you.

I haven’t yet but I will , a lot of advice seems to suggest that , thank you x

OP posts:
LanaL · 06/09/2023 08:43

WhatapityWapiti · 04/09/2023 13:50

  1. As mentioned upthread, any claim against the NHS will come out of their insurance so you can put out of your mind any worry about claiming money from them.
  2. what was the cause of the original accident? Is there a potentially liable party there? Yes, it sounds like the treatment failings exacerbated it but sometimes it’s better to pursue multiple defendants for strategic reasons. A solicitor can advise. Irwin Mitchell are a good form with nationwide presence.
  3. If you haven’t done so already, I would advise you to prepare a full chronology, with details of everything that happened on each date. That will make an initial consultation with a solicitor much easier. Your narrative above is a good start. Do 3 columns-date, event, supporting documents. If multiple things happened on one day use a separate row for each.
  4. Sometimes with personal injury claims you won’t be able to quantify your losses for a while, until after the long term effects have become clear, but a good solicitor can look into getting you interim payments and appointing a case manager to advise on immediate needs, so it’s worth getting the advice as early as possible. If the case is strong they should agree to a no win no fee agreement, which is perfectly fine if offered by a reputable firm.
  5. sorry this has happened, good luck. The above comes from my experience as a solicitor (not a personal injury specialist) who helped a family member bring a personal injury claim.
  1. Thank you . That takes away some guilt .
  2. No , we were looking into this but there isn’t really blame on anyone , don’t really want to say too much whilst still kind of looking into it just in case .
  3. Im working on this as we speak
  4. I will look into this . Obviously, we are at a loss and the financial loss originally we would have just had to accept as no one is really to blame but it’s all been made worse by the fall and I’m just getting angrier each day that we followed advice and it happened. I probably would have left it and just suffered in silence so to speak but the fact they discharged him in the same unsafe way makes me angry , nothing was learnt and this will continue to happen. The word 'lucky' doesnt really apply to us at all but he is lucky he has age on his side. Imagine if he was elderly and vulnerable ! The thought that this practice is happening and there are people so much more vulnerable out there - if this were a vulnerable patient the result could be so much worse. Lessons need to be learnt. Of course a financial compensation would help but I would be happy with reviews of care taking place as a result. At this point any financial compensation would be used towards a hip replacement thats my main concern
  5. Thank you xx
OP posts:
PinkFootstool · 06/09/2023 09:27

How did the original incident occur though? It might be something to explore whether there's any insurance to claim on etc there for loss of earnings and similar. Or a charity to support him.

If he fell off a ladder or similar, is self employed and wasn't working for anyone but himself (the client doesn't count in this scenario), he's likely got not personal injury insurance to claim from, but you could approach the Lighthouse Club which is a charity who may be able to give home a grant towards bills in the interim.

If he fell off a roof, was subcontracting to another builder and they failed to provide a safe scaffold, you make be able to claim on their insurance. And contact the Lighthouse Club as well.

If he fell off a bike cycling at speed, probably no insurance to claim on. If he came off a motorbike, does he have personal injury cover on his bike policy?

Lots of possibilities if you're prepared to give a few details, especially if it relates to employment, hobbies or vehicles.

notapizzaeater · 06/09/2023 09:32

Be aware that the average time to claim against the nhs is about 3/4 years - it's not a quick process.

Check your house insurance - if you've legal cover they sometimes cover this ?

LanaL · 06/09/2023 09:44

No cover on our house . We rent but no cover anyway , looking back now I realise how silly we were but you just never think something like this will happen .

In all honesty about the accident - I have alluded to it being a car and looking into insurance yet because I didn’t want to be identified, I know it’s a long shot but my worry was my husband seeing the posts somehow when they pop up on fb. I don’t want him knowing my worries at this point , I want him focusing on getting better and he can’t do anything to help , it will make him feel worse and he’s is suffering enough . But no it wasn’t a car. It was a motorbike . Private land, hobby , nothing unsafe or illegal or anything like that . Wasn’t even going at great speed , knocked into sports mode it sped and he came off .

But in the interests of the advice I’m looking for , taking the accident and any potential claim out of the equation saves people taking the time to advise on that x

OP posts:
PinkFootstool · 06/09/2023 10:46

OK, so was he insured on that bike? Have a look at whether he had personal injury cover that will pay out, and whether there's legal cover on that policy. One may help keep the wolf from the door right now, the other may assist you in a claim ref the hospital.

Any other policies you or he might have with legal cover? Bank account with attacked policy? Car insurance, member of a trade union, employer cover (as you said you're NHS or similar I think?).

I appreciate you want to focus on the hospital, but if you can get the initial incident sorted insurance wise it might help no end with the hospital as well.

LanaL · 06/09/2023 10:53

notapizzaeater · 06/09/2023 09:32

Be aware that the average time to claim against the nhs is about 3/4 years - it's not a quick process.

Check your house insurance - if you've legal cover they sometimes cover this ?

Yes I do know that it would be a long process so I’m not banking on anything financially there . It may not even lead to any , I’m quite aware that all this advice has been verbal as far as I know but I was thinking to look into requesting his records to see if there is anything on them about a risk assessment , his home situation etc x

OP posts:
LanaL · 06/09/2023 10:56

PinkFootstool · 06/09/2023 10:46

OK, so was he insured on that bike? Have a look at whether he had personal injury cover that will pay out, and whether there's legal cover on that policy. One may help keep the wolf from the door right now, the other may assist you in a claim ref the hospital.

Any other policies you or he might have with legal cover? Bank account with attacked policy? Car insurance, member of a trade union, employer cover (as you said you're NHS or similar I think?).

I appreciate you want to focus on the hospital, but if you can get the initial incident sorted insurance wise it might help no end with the hospital as well.

Yes , insured , will look into that I didn’t really think of that I kind of just thought as it was just him no one else involved that it was just one of those things , have to deal with it . Thank you

OP posts:
LanaL · 06/09/2023 11:10

Could anyone give advice on the first step ?
At this moment in time the main focus is on trying to push for the replacement so I was thinking of emailing PALS - I think I will wait for the next appointment to check on his hip ( that’s in a week and it could well be that it has deteriorated more and they decide on the replacement, I’m going to this appointment armed with all my questions and justifications ) if there is no progress and they are still adamant that they will not replace then I will take it further . I don’t want to start a complaint about it now , taking time and mental energy and then they say they are replacing anyway .

In regard to the negligence how would I word it to PALS? Do I say I believe he was unsafely discharged and detail my points and say I’m seeking legal advice or not say about legal advice and ask for his records ? I’m so clueless with all this !

OP posts:
PinkFootstool · 06/09/2023 11:24

Personally, I'd start today by sorting the initial incident with the bike insurers. Give them a call, ask what they can do. Check what cover he had and what he can claim for. Ask about legal cover, personal injury and damage cover. Get the bike collected for inspection and any repair (bent forks may not be visible etc) then get it sold or pocket any payout of cash against your bills while he can't work.

Then I'd write to PALS and you can honestly state you've started to take legal advice around the unsafe discharge.

I've no idea about the hip replacement - that will ultimately be a clinical decision but it doesn't mean you can't push and push for it. Ask for another surgeon to give an opinion if you disagree with this one.

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