Dismissal from making a claim

belle1993 · 2023-08-31T07:15:32+00:00

Can anyone tell me is it possible to get sack from work if you put a claim in for an injury that happened at work? Ds had an injury at work, he cut his finger quite badly and needed it operating on. He's not put a claim in due to being told by some work friends that if he does then the company will go out of business due to health and safety. He's now had a message from his boss saying he's heard he's going to put a claim in and they need to have a chat due to a customer complaint about him. (Which is minor) Ds is now worried he's going to get dismissed due to his boss thinking he's out a claim in. Any advice please?

Overthebow · 31/08/2023 08:18

How long has he worked there? And how did the injury happen, was he going against a risk assessment or was the risk assessment not good enough/there wasn’t one?

Original poster

belle1993 · 31/08/2023 08:21

He's worked there just over a year.
I'm not sure about risk assessment, he said he had his safety gloves on while using the machine. When he went to turn it on or off can't remember which he said that's when he got his finger caught in it.

I asked him if he's had any training on how to use the machine or signed any paper work to say he was trained to use it. He said no someone just showed him how

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LIZS · 31/08/2023 08:21

Separate the two things. Was the accident due to lack of training, faulty equipment or his user error? Is the complaint valid?

prh47bridge · 31/08/2023 08:22

It is always possible to be dismissed. The question is whether it would be an unfair dismissal. If he has worked there for at least 2 years he will be able to make a claim against them for unfair dismissal if they sack him for making a claim.

LIZS · 31/08/2023 08:22

He said no someone just showed him how - is this not training?

Original poster

belle1993 · 31/08/2023 08:25

LIZS · 31/08/2023 08:22

He said no someone just showed him how - is this not training?

Whenever I've been trained out to use something I've always had to sign a form stating I know how to use them machine correctly. He hasn't signed anything so wasn't sure if that's fully trained to use it.

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Soontobe60 · 31/08/2023 08:26

How did his manager message him? If he has proof eg as a text, I would advise him to speak to HR about this - his manager is intimidating him in order to cover his own back by the sounds of it.
As a minimum, the accident should have been recorded according to HSE RIDDOR requirements.
https://www.hse.gov.uk/riddor/reportable-incidents.htm

Reportable incidents - RIDDOR - HSE

This page explains the types of incidents that are reportable under RIDDOR.

https://www.hse.gov.uk/riddor/reportable-incidents.htm

Soontobe60 · 31/08/2023 08:28

LIZS · 31/08/2023 08:21

Separate the two things. Was the accident due to lack of training, faulty equipment or his user error? Is the complaint valid?

How an accident occurred is irrelevant - it should still be reported and investigated correctly.

6monthsto50 · 31/08/2023 08:28

What was the operation?

Original poster

belle1993 · 31/08/2023 08:28

LIZS · 31/08/2023 08:21

Separate the two things. Was the accident due to lack of training, faulty equipment or his user error? Is the complaint valid?

I think the accident was due to lack of training. The complaint is valid but not a sackable complaint

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Original poster

belle1993 · 31/08/2023 08:30

Soontobe60 · 31/08/2023 08:26

How did his manager message him? If he has proof eg as a text, I would advise him to speak to HR about this - his manager is intimidating him in order to cover his own back by the sounds of it.
As a minimum, the accident should have been recorded according to HSE RIDDOR requirements.
https://www.hse.gov.uk/riddor/reportable-incidents.htm

I don't think he's kept the text message. Hr is his managers wife so not sure going there would help. It's a family fun business.

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Original poster

belle1993 · 31/08/2023 08:32

He totally lost his finger nail and nail bed, also cut to the bone. He had to have it operated on to clean the wound and try and build the nail bed back. He's been told it's possible his nail will never grow back

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DinnaeFashYersel · 31/08/2023 08:36

Work should have insurance to cover the claim.

He can claim whether they dismiss him or not

A conversation about a complaint is a long way from being dismissed.

But he has less than two years service so if they are a bad employer and dismiss him unfair there's not much you can do.

Have you considered your own insurance- do you have personal injury on your home insurance?

prh47bridge · 31/08/2023 09:09

But he has less than two years service so if they are a bad employer and dismiss him unfair there's not much you can do

Not entirely true. If they dismiss him for taking action or proposing to take action over a health & safety issue, that is an automatically unfair dismissal, and he does not need two years' service to take action. Even if they state a different reason, he can still take action if he can show that the stated reason is a pretext and that the health & safety issue is the real reason.

Original poster

belle1993 · 31/08/2023 09:18

What about if he records the conversation he has with his manger! Or is that a bad idea?

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Moonlightsonatas · 31/08/2023 09:20

Did he complete the accident book at the time? If he had to go to hospital it is likely that the company have to report this to HSE:
https://www.hse.gov.uk/riddor/reportable-incidents.htm

Reportable incidents - RIDDOR - HSE

This page explains the types of incidents that are reportable under RIDDOR.

https://www.hse.gov.uk/riddor/reportable-incidents.htm

Original poster

belle1993 · 31/08/2023 09:25

Moonlightsonatas · 31/08/2023 09:20

Did he complete the accident book at the time? If he had to go to hospital it is likely that the company have to report this to HSE:
https://www.hse.gov.uk/riddor/reportable-incidents.htm

That's the first thing I asked, if he'd put it in the accident book.
He said he didn't, he was in pain, shock and blood squirting out everywhere.
He said he thinks someone else did it for him.
Told him he needs to make sure he does it

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vivainsomnia · 31/08/2023 09:27

I think the accident was due to lack of training. The complaint is valid but not a sackable complaint
To be fair, you were not there for either incident and can only go by what your son has done.

I've never had to sign anything to confirmed I've received training. The question is whether the 'showing' was adequate training. They should have training policies, so he could check whether they have followed their procedure.

Also check what the machinery requires in terms of safety. Were the gloves provided adequate for its use.

Original poster

belle1993 · 31/08/2023 09:35

vivainsomnia · 31/08/2023 09:27

I think the accident was due to lack of training. The complaint is valid but not a sackable complaint
To be fair, you were not there for either incident and can only go by what your son has done.

I've never had to sign anything to confirmed I've received training. The question is whether the 'showing' was adequate training. They should have training policies, so he could check whether they have followed their procedure.

Also check what the machinery requires in terms of safety. Were the gloves provided adequate for its use.

I work in an environment with quite a few machines. We've always had to have full training in using them and also had to sign forms afterwards. Not sure if that's same for every company.

He did have safety gloves on and goggles

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YouveGotAFastCar · 31/08/2023 09:38

belle1993 · 31/08/2023 08:32

He totally lost his finger nail and nail bed, also cut to the bone. He had to have it operated on to clean the wound and try and build the nail bed back. He's been told it's possible his nail will never grow back

My Dad had an injury like this, from a CSC machine. It did grow back, very slowly.

He can't record the calls with his manager without his manager agreeing. They'd not be admissable if he did - there are a few exceptions but I can't see this scenario fitting in to any of them.

prh47bridge · 31/08/2023 10:53

belle1993 · 31/08/2023 09:35

I work in an environment with quite a few machines. We've always had to have full training in using them and also had to sign forms afterwards. Not sure if that's same for every company.

He did have safety gloves on and goggles

Show quote history

Getting people to sign for training provides proof that they have been trained. Should he make a claim, one of the questions will be whether the employer can show that adequate training was provided. A document signed by him acknowledging that he had been trained would clearly help, but the absence of such a document isn't necessarily fatal to their position.

Original poster

belle1993 · 31/08/2023 11:07

I don't understand why most of his colleagues have told him if he was to make a claim then they all would be out of a job. The company would get closed down due to health and safety!
Obviously something is going on then if it's the insurance that would make the payout not the company

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Comefromaway · 31/08/2023 11:17

The company should have insurance. If they havn't they are breaking employment laws.

What also concerns me is that this should have been reported to the HSE.

An ex employee of ours went to work for a company with a notorious reputation. There was a serious accident and he was persuaded to lie to get get the company out of the sh** with HSE for similar reasons.

A couple of years later he was dead, having suffered an excruciating death because proper H & S procedures were not followed.

Janieforever · 31/08/2023 11:35

I think he’s Been trained, signing a form really doesn’t change that. It does read like user error.

it seems he wants to put in a compensation claim? Is this right?

Original poster

belle1993 · 31/08/2023 11:36

Comefromaway · 31/08/2023 11:17

The company should have insurance. If they havn't they are breaking employment laws.

What also concerns me is that this should have been reported to the HSE.

An ex employee of ours went to work for a company with a notorious reputation. There was a serious accident and he was persuaded to lie to get get the company out of the sh** with HSE for similar reasons.

A couple of years later he was dead, having suffered an excruciating death because proper H & S procedures were not followed.

That's terrible!

If the accident had been reported to the HSE would my ds have known about this, would they have contacted him?
I've never been in a situation like this so not very clued up about it.

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