Estate agent lied about guarantor

[Applecrumble100]

We just found out that our estate agent lied about a guarantor. There is one but it is a totally different person than who we were told it was. We don't know the person or saw a credit check on them. Do we have grounds for complaint?

What is the point of you, honestly? Your snide little comments are not in any way helpful to the thread

I completely understand all of what you're saying OP and I'm not sure why everyone's so grumpy/misreading this morning?!

Have you outright asked the EA about the mix up and what was their response?
And is the problem with the tenants now that they're not paying rent/the guarantor isn't paying?

To know who to go after you need to be clearer about who potentially forged what?

Did the guarantor do it? Or the estate agents?
Does new person exist as a legit person who sighed the contract?
Is the issue just that a different person signed than you expected - though that should have been queried 3 years ago why names are different.

To be fair your questions show that you don’t completely understand everything the OP is saying either. She clearly said the issue now is that the tenants extensively damaged the property and so shel need to go after the guarantor for the money. Several of us were just trying to get more information to work out how best to advise the OP.

I'm here for advice from people who might be qualified about my original question @burnoutbabe. You've not understood the situation-there is no question, for example, as to whether we followed due process (we did), so there's no need for me to explain that or defend myself about it.

The question is only about the EA lying by substiting a name of a guarantor from day 1. Which would never have come to light if we weren't now taking legal action against the tenants.

Thank you @eandz13 and @Nemesias - much appreciated. I'm going to move to another legal site now, where I know I'll just get legal comments, because the comments on here are just so strange and combative.

Op, let’s get some perspective here…

No harm, no foul. You’ve not had to claim against the guarantor so presumably you’ve had tenants paying their rent on time for 3 years.

Is this really something to get angry about? If so, maybe look into meditation?! It’s ridiculous to be expending energy on looking for legal recourse when the normal response is to phone the agent, say that there has been admin admin fuck up that needs to be resolved asap and get it sorted.

It is nothing short of ridiculous to try and make drama out of this

Unfortunately that’s MN for you. No idea how you managed to attract them I can only assume it’s because they hate landlords.

hope you get it sorted OP

Probably because this is a discussion site and not a legal site. People may well have had good advice if you were willing to discuss. And I’m very sorry to break it to you, but even on a legal site people may ask questions because it’s relevant! Like those of us asking if you actually have the credit check or the original guarantor (which you need to check in your emails) if you do then you have proof that they’ve mislead you other than just ‘we did nothing wrong’.

at least rtft before you pile in with you opinion

@TeaKitten I skimmed, got the gist and still understood the main issue. I wasn't aiming my comment at those who weren't being grumpy, asking for more info is always fine - some were definitely just being a bit cranky IMO.

Good luck OP! Hope you get sound advice.

OP
people are asking about the details of the document and guarantor status which are important to be able to answer your questions.

Is the EA a management company with you an arms length landlord? Many management companies handle things like guarantors without the landlord ever getting involved. Have you checked your contract with the EA to see if this os the kind of relationship you have entered into?

Did you receive copies of the guarantor agreement (be that tenancy or separate agreement) 3 years ago with the guarantors name on? If not, why not? Have the tenants signed new leases every year and had all data updated and have you received copies of all this?

If you did and the names are different, you need to find out at what point the name changed to the unknown person and who approved this. Your own administration should be able to identify this.

You have already stated there are things you haven’t read, could it be you ignored or skimmed through without taking in the communications regarding any change or amendment to the guarantor? Did you assume at lease renewal that the information was the same as before?

Are you required to co-sign the guarantor and tenancy agreement or do the EA do that as your management company?

I find it strange given the regulation around EA and rentals that they would outright lie.

In terms of resolution through ombudsmen or court for the “lie” - if the guarantor whose name you have now is financially liable for the damage costs and their financial details were enough to pass the guarantor test then the only difference between guarantor A dealing with it or guarantor B is in their name. Both will be party to the same contractual agreement. Both will have liability to reimburse costs regardless of their name. If the contract has changed and you haven’t noticed that is on you.

If the EA hasn’t done proper checks and guarantor B is in no position to pay for damages or if the agreement guarantor B has signed is different to the one you were aware of with A then you may (only may) have a negligence case against the EA but this would depend on a huge number of variables and would rely on you having saved all the evidence of prior communications and being able to show with your evidence that the EA was negligent in doing their job. That can be very difficult and risky and could end up costing you far more than the cost of repairs.

If you do not have copies of all your communications then you can ask for them through a subject access request. I think you need to be 100% sure at no time were you made aware of the change. This may not be explicit, it may have changed with contract renewal and you haven’t fully read it. That would be a poor show on the part of the EA for not making you aware but ultimately in that scenario the responsibility to read the
Contracts in full would be yours.

in any legal dispute the facts need to be clear - who lied when and did they just lie verbally or on paper too - and how did they admit to the discrepancy when revealed?

currently you can do nothing legally as yoy have suffered no loss - until you try and claim off new guarantor and fail, then maybe you have a cause of action against the estate agents

Complaining can be done anytime - to the person's boss/branch manager/complaints team if large chain - or an estate agent society if they are signed up for one. Not clear you would get anything financial back out of it as its not clear whether you have an actual legit guarantor who exists and you haven't sued yet, or a made up person - and again not clear if the tennants made up the guarantor or the estate agent (less likely) though the estate agent should have done some checks to confirm their identity, but their liability is probably limited to just whatever you paid them to do the referencing. Not the full amount.

Did you bother reading any of OPs posts at all?

I can never understand how these straightforward posts for help and advice descend in to a toxic morass. Just ignore the negativity and dont take the bait.

The guarantor can only be changed as part of the renewal process and then only with your consent. If however this was actually done prior to commencement ie that you'd been told Mr X would be guarantor but have now realised (after 3 years) its Mr & Mrs Y then as due diligence goes the EA is at fault.

However it may well be that you're fretting unnecessarily as there is a guarantor in place whom you can claim against for loss. I had real issues with an EA in the south west but it was on a sale. I went to the property ombudsman who were worse than useless to the the point of pitiful. The word 'ombudsman' has become a byword for indifference and apathy so don't waste your time.

My only concern would be, and I have looked back through the thread, that the replacement guarantor is not on the AST agreement. This would be my real concern unless the EA has a.n.other on a separate written agreement they have failed to include within the AST. The last thing you want is someone saying " I'm not named on the AST nothing to do with me". In which case you then have a claim against the EA.

Where is the deposit protected btw? The EA will no doubt put this forward as an 'oversight' in typical bland EA spin. As a rule, from personal experience and with this as a cautionary tale never put a let with an EA.

She did say she paid them to property manage.

The strength of your complaint will be based on your losses.

If you indeed find out that the guarantor is earning half what the guarantor you were told AND they don't pay up because they can't afford it and the courts are with them, then you'd have a chance that your complaint is taken seriously.

If they pay, the complaint will be about learning and following recommendations and nothing to benefit you.