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Can we do anything about this in front garden?

26 replies

BlockedLight · 08/07/2023 10:14

Person A rents downstairs flat, Couple B own upstairs flat and the freehold plus the front garden. Right of access over front garden for A to walk across to access the road and to use bin store in corner of garden but does not own the garden or any portion of it.

A and B do not get on.

B have just installed a gazebo in the front garden which blocks the light into As living room.

A has reported to landlord who just kind of shrugged.

A has had issues with noise from B in the past and when reported to the council they didn’t care.

If A reports it to the council will they do anything? No conveants about use of front garden as far as we can tell. These are purpose build flats, so downstairs owns back garden and upstairs front.

OP posts:
Belindabelle · 08/07/2023 12:37

A gazebo is not a permanent structure and does not require planning permission so the council will not do anything. As the property is owned and not rented from the council they will not do anything.

MrsKwazi · 08/07/2023 12:41

If i rented and my life was made so miserable by a neighbour, I would move.

BlockedLight · 08/07/2023 15:15

Thanks everyone as I suspected, I'm not A but know him.

He's trying to move but can't, he's a single man on disability benefits and can't get into council/social housing at all as he's seen as adaquately housed.

OP posts:
Beacon2000 · 09/07/2023 18:26

Gazebos are free standing so planning permission is not required. However, your friend has a Right to Light. The Royal Institute of Chartered Surveyors has set up a Neighbour Disputes Service to negotiate agreements between homeowners, including light issues.

I suggest your friend starts there. I don't practice land law but presumably its possible to get some kind of equitable remedy for a case like this if the RICS ADR fails.

Theunamedcat · 09/07/2023 18:29

A wooden gazebo?

Beacon2000 · 09/07/2023 18:33

Theunamedcat · 09/07/2023 18:29

A wooden gazebo?

Don't matter what it is. It could be a hedge, a caravan or a horse! The occupier of the downstairs flat has a right to light. I'm not sure if the leaseholder can pursue it or if it needs to be the landlord, but said landlord will be keen to deal with it if it threatens his income.

Tulipvase · 09/07/2023 18:33

Probably not remotely possible and could be worse depending on the size of the gardens but I wonder if swapping the gardens around would help.

Expensive too I expect even if possible.

Tulipvase · 09/07/2023 18:34

Right to light is very tricky to prove/get in my experience.

Beacon2000 · 09/07/2023 19:29

Tulipvase · 09/07/2023 18:34

Right to light is very tricky to prove/get in my experience.

It can be. Sticking a gazebo right in front of someone's window is probably easier than average though!

Tulipvase · 09/07/2023 19:39

Beacon2000 · 09/07/2023 19:29

It can be. Sticking a gazebo right in front of someone's window is probably easier than average though!

True.

BlockedLight · 09/07/2023 19:50

It's a tent like gazebo and right up against As window.

Will look at the Neighbour Dispute Service thank you

OP posts:
Beacon2000 · 09/07/2023 19:54

BlockedLight · 09/07/2023 19:50

It's a tent like gazebo and right up against As window.

Will look at the Neighbour Dispute Service thank you

That's interesting as that sounds like a temporary structure and seems fairly obvious the intent is to annoy. Arguably they are creating a private nuisance which if he was so minded could be dealt with by a court. It doesn't sound like he would have the means to pay the legal fees though and damages would only be nominal (the injunction would be the main aim of winning such a case). I think it's unlikely he would choose to do this as moving would be cheaper.

Regardless, to get any kind of remedy he should exhaust ADR methods first and RICS will be the first port of call.

RandomMess · 09/07/2023 19:57

A couple in Blackpool were forced to remove the catio from the front garden, they argument of temporary structure rejected I believe

Madrid67 · 09/07/2023 20:00

I'm not sure if the leaseholder can pursue
OP said Couple B who put the gazebo up own the lease

LoisPrice · 09/07/2023 20:05

He's trying to move but can't, he's a single man on disability benefits and can't get into council/social housing at all as he's seen as adaquately housed.

he can go on the list and bid, he ill not be priority but if he keeps bidding eventually he may be offered something

Beacon2000 · 09/07/2023 20:07

Madrid67 · 09/07/2023 20:00

I'm not sure if the leaseholder can pursue
OP said Couple B who put the gazebo up own the lease

No, they own the leasehold estate for their property (if they are in the upstairs flat I'm assuming here that they don't own the freehold). The landlord owns the estate of person A's flat (whether as leasehold or freehold I don't know, but it would not be uncommon for him to be the freeholder).

However, with Couple B and the Landlord, if it's leasehold it's probably for a peppercorn rent and for 999 years. By leaseholder in my post above I was referring to the lease held by the tenant, person A, which is probably a fixed term lease of 1 year or a periodic lease rolling month to month. Property can be held by a landlord as a leasehold estate and then the lease rented out to a tenant who becomes the leaseholder (apologies for the terminology overload!).

Mariposa26 · 09/07/2023 20:31

Beacon2000 · 09/07/2023 20:07

No, they own the leasehold estate for their property (if they are in the upstairs flat I'm assuming here that they don't own the freehold). The landlord owns the estate of person A's flat (whether as leasehold or freehold I don't know, but it would not be uncommon for him to be the freeholder).

However, with Couple B and the Landlord, if it's leasehold it's probably for a peppercorn rent and for 999 years. By leaseholder in my post above I was referring to the lease held by the tenant, person A, which is probably a fixed term lease of 1 year or a periodic lease rolling month to month. Property can be held by a landlord as a leasehold estate and then the lease rented out to a tenant who becomes the leaseholder (apologies for the terminology overload!).

It says the couple own both the freehold for the whole property and the front garden in the OP.

BewareTheBeardedDragon · 09/07/2023 20:32

OP said couple B own the freehold of the building as well as the leasehold of their flat - so any resolution would have to be sought from outside agencies. As landlord could complain to B, but landlord has no authority to do anything about this since B are ultimately the freeholder. Tricky situation.

Beacon2000 · 09/07/2023 21:50

Mariposa26 · 09/07/2023 20:31

It says the couple own both the freehold for the whole property and the front garden in the OP.

Thanks for clarifying. Okay, so the landlord will have the leasehold estate of the 999 year type and his tenant will be the lease holder during his tenancy.

Beacon2000 · 09/07/2023 21:51

BewareTheBeardedDragon · 09/07/2023 20:32

OP said couple B own the freehold of the building as well as the leasehold of their flat - so any resolution would have to be sought from outside agencies. As landlord could complain to B, but landlord has no authority to do anything about this since B are ultimately the freeholder. Tricky situation.

It's not all that tricky but will require an equitable remedy if it cannot be agreed in ADR.

BewareTheBeardedDragon · 10/07/2023 18:15

I think the OP is renting so it does require the landlord who is the leaseholder of their flat to take action I guess?

BlockedLight · 10/07/2023 18:26

BewareTheBeardedDragon · 10/07/2023 18:15

I think the OP is renting so it does require the landlord who is the leaseholder of their flat to take action I guess?

@BewareTheBeardedDragon A is renting yes, Couple B own their flat which is above As

OP posts:
Catmummyof2 · 10/07/2023 18:56

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the poster's request.

BlockedLight · 10/07/2023 18:59

This reply has been deleted

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the poster's request.

@Catmummyof2 Thank you, will try Environmental Health and Planning Department

OP posts:
pinguins · 10/07/2023 19:05

Here OP I found this:
Unfortunately, there are some areas that are off-limits. For example, you cannot build a permanent gazebo at the front of your house. The Permitted Development Rights forbids outdoor structures from being constructed forward your principal elevation; that is, the front of your home. Another restriction that may be at play based on your specific location may be a particular distance from a road or highway.

From: https://windproofgazebos.com/planning-permission-gazebo/

So I'd ring the council about it as it's not permitted development at the front of the house. Another article mentioned that "permanent gazebo" means one that is there for more than 28 days.

do i need planning permission for a gazebo

Do I Need Planning Permission For A Gazebo?

If beautiful weather often sends you outdoors, you might consider installing a gazebo. These types of outdoor buildings offer you protection from sun and rain

https://windproofgazebos.com/planning-permission-gazebo

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