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Original poster

Maternity rights to time in lieu?

78 replies

Arcticpuff · 09/05/2023 10:41

Genuinely not sure where else to ask as am getting conflicting views from HR, ACAS, pregnant then screwed and others at work!

my workplace has summer hours every year from May - August. It’s where you can finish work at 12 every Friday.

Before I went on maternity leave a co-worker said to me to make sure I check whether summer hours are going ahead this year as I should be entitled to those half days accumulated as annual leave during maternity leave, since other staff members benefit from them.

HR have said no as it’s not a contractual benefit, however ACAS said it might meet the threshold, pregnant then screwed said I should be able to claim those hours back. So am a bit stuck and wanted to see if anyone on here had this before in terms of workplace ‘benefits’ on Mat leave.

Thank you in advance

OP posts:
ItsBritneyBitchhhh · 09/05/2023 14:57

TuesandThursNero · 09/05/2023 14:46

I’ll bow out

but please update with the outcome!

Cross posted. It’s about time😅

TuesandThursNero · 09/05/2023 14:57

Ok I really will bow out now 😂 m
good luck!

JobChangeSoonPlease · 09/05/2023 14:58

Hi @Arcticpuff - we might be working for the same employer!

The Fridays time off is not entirely time off. Working hours Mon-Thu are increased by 30mins to catch up 2 hours of that time off. So technically it's only 2 hours that everyone is getting 'off work' per week.

I used to have Friday as non-working (worked 4days/week) and I could not claim anything for the 2 hours I was losing on Fridays.

There are loads who've taken ML and no one claims the 2h/week. I don't think it's possible as it's a use it or lose it.

Original poster
Arcticpuff · 09/05/2023 14:59

TuesandThursNero · 09/05/2023 14:57

So 18000 people. Today.

in 5 years no one has asked for this?

and there is a “handful” of part time workers, all of which have arranged their hours so that they work Friday afternoon ie get it off but still get paid

ok

That’s what HR have said.

most aren’t aware of being able to use unpaid parental leave so I can quite believe no one has asked about it thus far.

OP posts:
Original poster
Arcticpuff · 09/05/2023 15:00

JobChangeSoonPlease · 09/05/2023 14:58

Hi @Arcticpuff - we might be working for the same employer!

The Fridays time off is not entirely time off. Working hours Mon-Thu are increased by 30mins to catch up 2 hours of that time off. So technically it's only 2 hours that everyone is getting 'off work' per week.

I used to have Friday as non-working (worked 4days/week) and I could not claim anything for the 2 hours I was losing on Fridays.

There are loads who've taken ML and no one claims the 2h/week. I don't think it's possible as it's a use it or lose it.

Ah not the same (as we don’t increase hours in the week to cover) but thank you for this answer, good to hear from those with similar arrangements

OP posts:
TrudyProud · 09/05/2023 15:01

Personally I'd say you aren't entitled to it.
I'd consider it the same as when companies let you leave early on Xmas eve. If you ask for the day off you can't just take a half day because essentially the company could withdraw it at any time and it's a perk of working Xmas Eve - not a standard company benefit.

Likewise if you'd block booked 2 weeks in the summer you likely wouldn't be able to ask for the half day benefit.

Though it's interesting someone in hr won't just say it explicitly.

SheilaFentiman · 09/05/2023 15:02

It’s not surprising to me that most part times choose to have Friday as one of their working days, given this benefit. When DH and I both went part time, he chose to have Mondays off and me Fridays, because his work treated bank holidays differently to mine and it worked out better that way for total holiday balance!

Original poster
Arcticpuff · 09/05/2023 15:03

TrudyProud · 09/05/2023 15:01

Personally I'd say you aren't entitled to it.
I'd consider it the same as when companies let you leave early on Xmas eve. If you ask for the day off you can't just take a half day because essentially the company could withdraw it at any time and it's a perk of working Xmas Eve - not a standard company benefit.

Likewise if you'd block booked 2 weeks in the summer you likely wouldn't be able to ask for the half day benefit.

Though it's interesting someone in hr won't just say it explicitly.

issue is we can take a half day and get a whole day off on the summer Fridays.

so if I want to take a Friday off in June I’d only put a half day through on the system and have the whole day off

OP posts:
JobChangeSoonPlease · 09/05/2023 15:05

@SheilaFentiman - 100% agree. Within few months of joining I changed my non working day to Monday because I was losing out on the 1/2 day Friday off.

I had to work out informally with my manager - a slightly later time when I would get off work as I wasn't working on Monday so I wasn't doing my extra 30 mins on that day.

Original poster
Arcticpuff · 09/05/2023 15:05

SheilaFentiman · 09/05/2023 15:02

It’s not surprising to me that most part times choose to have Friday as one of their working days, given this benefit. When DH and I both went part time, he chose to have Mondays off and me Fridays, because his work treated bank holidays differently to mine and it worked out better that way for total holiday balance!

Yeah hardly anyone has a Friday off as summer we have this benefit and for the rest of the year we have meeting free Fridays so it’s a bit of a nothing done day anyway, pointless to take it off most of the time unless you’re away away

OP posts:
SheilaFentiman · 09/05/2023 15:09

Our Xmas closure days are added to the holiday balance for maternity leave, but these are detailed on the staff hub.

are the summer leave afternoons mentioned on the staff intranet or in the staff handbook?

Original poster
Arcticpuff · 09/05/2023 15:11

SheilaFentiman · 09/05/2023 15:09

Our Xmas closure days are added to the holiday balance for maternity leave, but these are detailed on the staff hub.

are the summer leave afternoons mentioned on the staff intranet or in the staff handbook?

It’s mentioned on the intranet, as some years the months have differed (the year before last as we were very busy during COVID it only ran from June - August) when it starts and it’s put into everyone’s calendars

Nothing in the handbook

OP posts:
RegalWeasel · 09/05/2023 15:31

I can believe nobody has asked about this before (or challenged it?) given the mixed views seen on this thread.

Contracts are made up of express and implied terms (not just the written wording in a signed agreement) and terms can absolutely be implied through custom and practice.

Whether this is the case here, I think you would need some specialist advice as there are various tests that would need to be satisfied and your employer might disagree. Sometimes these things can only be resolved by taking an employer to tribunal, which understandably most people wouldn't want to do for the sake of a few days' leave.

Employment law is a complex area and often it is uncomfortable to query these sorts of issues - always good to be informed of what your entitlements are. If you don't ask, you won't know!

Anoisagusaris · 09/05/2023 15:34

We can take an extra half day over Christmas. It’s not up to each manager to manage when it’s taken and doesn’t go through any of the leave systems. You’d be laughed at if you asked to take it after maternity leave.

Original poster
Arcticpuff · 09/05/2023 15:37

Anoisagusaris · 09/05/2023 15:34

We can take an extra half day over Christmas. It’s not up to each manager to manage when it’s taken and doesn’t go through any of the leave systems. You’d be laughed at if you asked to take it after maternity leave.

Being laughed at doesn’t mean you’re not entitled to it. Thankfully I’ve had many helpful comments on this subject and a few private messages from people with similar arrangements who successfully claimed them during maternity leave

OP posts:
Original poster
Arcticpuff · 09/05/2023 15:39

RegalWeasel · 09/05/2023 15:31

I can believe nobody has asked about this before (or challenged it?) given the mixed views seen on this thread.

Contracts are made up of express and implied terms (not just the written wording in a signed agreement) and terms can absolutely be implied through custom and practice.

Whether this is the case here, I think you would need some specialist advice as there are various tests that would need to be satisfied and your employer might disagree. Sometimes these things can only be resolved by taking an employer to tribunal, which understandably most people wouldn't want to do for the sake of a few days' leave.

Employment law is a complex area and often it is uncomfortable to query these sorts of issues - always good to be informed of what your entitlements are. If you don't ask, you won't know!

I suppose like many on here, and me too, people assume it wouldn’t count. I’d have never thought about it until a co worker mentioned it to me.

she came from a competitor who had something very similar (2 hours off every Friday instead of a half day) and when she had maternity leaves she was able to claim it back (but she had to fight for it) so she just asked if I wanted to be sent a message if they were doing summer hours this year so I could speak to HR. If she hadn’t said anything I’d have never thought to even look into it.

OP posts:
RegalWeasel · 09/05/2023 15:40

Yes, I can completely see how these things come about. Good luck with it all!

BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz · 09/05/2023 15:41

What happens to those part timers who don't have Friday as a working day?

Original poster
Arcticpuff · 09/05/2023 15:43

BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz · 09/05/2023 15:41

What happens to those part timers who don't have Friday as a working day?

There aren’t many, most seem to take it on another day but that has to be agreed with their line manger. From memory one or two people were unable to take them on different days as their teams rearranged their weeks to accommodate the Friday half days and couldn’t afford to lose people on other days regularly.

OP posts:
SheilaFentiman · 09/05/2023 15:43

“What happens to those part timers who don't have Friday as a working day?”

OP has said their line manager may let them have it on a different day or, more likely, many with any choice about days off would work Fridays precisely to get this perk as it tots up to 6-8 extra holiday days!

SheilaFentiman · 09/05/2023 16:25

It definitely seems like a grey area - especially as they confirm every year the period that it applies - so I’m not surprised no one has asked. Or maybe one or two asked informally and were satisfied with a verbal answer that it’s not contractual, as HR have said to you.

Original poster
Arcticpuff · 09/05/2023 17:04

SheilaFentiman · 09/05/2023 16:25

It definitely seems like a grey area - especially as they confirm every year the period that it applies - so I’m not surprised no one has asked. Or maybe one or two asked informally and were satisfied with a verbal answer that it’s not contractual, as HR have said to you.

Definitely in that grey area! So hard to know what to do as even ACAS is hedging their bets!

Will speak with an employment lawyer I’ve used before, was just hoping to not need to spend the cash on it if it was easy!

OP posts:
RegalWeasel · 09/05/2023 17:14

The employer would probably say it is not "contractual" i.e. it is not a benefit referenced in your written contract but it wouldn't be up to them whether it has in fact become a contractual term by ongoing custom.

Fingers crossed an employment solicitors can advise!

Premiumbondbaby · 09/05/2023 23:37

@Arcticpuff how does your employer inform employees of the start and end of the summer working? How do you know you can finish early on a Friday? How do you know to only book 3.75 hours leave for a Friday?

Given the size of the workforce impacted, I would expect at least an email setting out the period, any rules etc. sent to all staff. If you have a copy of this years notification that is the key document for showing a benefit you would have received had you not been on Mat leave.

gogogoji · 10/05/2023 13:50

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