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Legal matters

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you have any legal concerns we suggest you consult a solicitor.

Shop accident.

96 replies

ShopAccident · 12/04/2023 22:59

Hello, my son had something fall on his head in a shopping centre today. I was quite shaken by the incident myself, the shopping centre manager put ice on his head, did a first aid check & gave me advice on what to look out for, put us in a taxi, gave me money to pay & phoned me later.

I noticed a woman taking photos of the scene as I sat comforting my son & wondered if she was going to give them to me but she must of walked off & I didn't think anything else other than worrying about my son.

Since getting home though I've had multiple people tell me I 'Should make a claim' & also being quite nasty about the fact that I 'Just walked away' & that what the shopping centre did 'Just wasn't good enough'

Is it worth claiming for this or should I just let it go? He has a bump & has been very sleepy & he's upset about what happened but other than that seems ok.

OP posts:
ShopAccident · 13/04/2023 10:45

Thank you Tromso.
Thank you ChocChipHandbag I still appreciate your reply.
Sophia Thank you, I might do that.
purpledalmation Aww I bet that shocked your mum. The manager yesterday looked very relieved as well!

OP posts:
Skybluepinky · 13/04/2023 10:49

You sound more interested in getting money than yr child’s health, as soon as he felt drowsy u should have been on yr way to A&E.

ShopAccident · 13/04/2023 11:05

Skybluepinky Do I really? That's what you've decided after reading my posts? I don't think I've mentioned money at all apart from saying they paid for our taxi (which I didn't ask for, they said they didn't want us walking which was how we were planning to get home)

OP posts:
Unsure33 · 13/04/2023 11:26

I know what kind of mechanism you mean and they are heavy and would hurt .

I think I would follow up with an email and ask them to confirm they have rectified the problem and ensured that there will be checks in the future to make sure it does not happen again and explain that you had stressful evening and an upset child on your hands .

just for peace of mind so you have recorded the incident properly .

ShopAccident · 13/04/2023 11:29

Thank you Unsure, I have emailed them.

OP posts:
NoWordForFluffy · 13/04/2023 18:12

OP, you should be aware that the incident will probably already have been notified to the insurers as a circumstance that might lead to a claim. In the unfortunate event that the injury turns out to be something more, you have not prejudiced your position by anything that you did at the time. You have up to 3 years to bring a claim.

This is incorrect in the case of a minor. The time limit is 3 years from the child's 18th birthday.

You're really not being amazingly accurate in the advice you're giving out here.

ChocChipHandbag · 13/04/2023 18:21

NoWordForFluffy · 13/04/2023 18:12

OP, you should be aware that the incident will probably already have been notified to the insurers as a circumstance that might lead to a claim. In the unfortunate event that the injury turns out to be something more, you have not prejudiced your position by anything that you did at the time. You have up to 3 years to bring a claim.

This is incorrect in the case of a minor. The time limit is 3 years from the child's 18th birthday.

You're really not being amazingly accurate in the advice you're giving out here.

Yep, I'll own that one, I did forget that we were talking about a minor when I said that. Thank you for the correction. Though I think that OP will know within much less than 3 years whether there is any lasting effect..

comfyoldjeans · 13/04/2023 18:50

Unless there was some sort of serious injury, there's nothing to 'claim' for, but I would definitely write a letter of complaint to the shopping centre. If they've been negligent or cut corners in some way it'll need to be investigated.

Soapyspuds · 13/04/2023 19:02

Not sure about compensation if he has not been that badly hurt.

Make sure you report to the necessary health and safety people though. Whoever they are.

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 13/04/2023 19:23

ChocChipHandbag · 13/04/2023 09:46

@Rosula telling someone what they have said was "bullshit" is beyond rude. I'm secure in my professional opinion, as well as having had direct experience in the other side as a claimant. Clearly I'm not going to write a piece of comprehensive legal advice on a Mumsnet forum. If OP's son has nothing more than a passing bump on his head he is not going to be awarded damages that are worth pursuing. If ( God forbid) it is a worse injury then things would be different.

But she can always waste her time going to a no win no fee lawyer to be told that.

Nice to know that you are secure in your professional opinion. What exactly is that profession, as a matter of interest? It clearly isn't one that involves knowledge of the assessment of damages in tort.

purpledalmation · 13/04/2023 19:41

ChocChipHandbag · 13/04/2023 10:43

I'm sorry that your children were injured. Without the full facts, which I obviously don't expect you to give, I couldn't possibly comment on how your case differed from OP's current position but, as I said, losses come in various different forms and there are set methods for attributing financial value to losses that are not straight purchases made or earnings lost. But a little bump on the head with no lasting impact is not going to attract damages worth pursuing. I stand by my basic statement that damages in this country are compensatory and have to be proven, they are not awarded automatically just because someone was negligent (the negligence also has to be proven of course).

OP, you should be aware that the incident will probably already have been notified to the insurers as a circumstance that might lead to a claim. In the unfortunate event that the injury turns out to be something more, you have not prejudiced your position by anything that you did at the time. You have up to 3 years to bring a claim.

In response to what another poster said, of course "nuisance value" settlements are a thing - all legal negotiation is about the two sides bluffing about the respective strengths of their cases against the prospect of taking it to court. But you have to start with something vaguely sustainable. There are costs-related mechanisms to incentivise early settlement as well.

This is correct in law. I'm currently in a legal case for a minor for negligence, and this is the case. There must be lasting significant damage for a solicitor to even look at this. Yes, the time limit is up to the age of 18 for a minor (parent is the litigent friend) after 18 the child themselves has 3 years.

purpledalmation · 13/04/2023 19:44

@MissLucyEyelesbarrow I'd put money on choc chip being a solicitor. I've spoken to enough in our own case to know sense.

Pearfacebananapoop · 13/04/2023 19:50

Ok so I work in property. The shopping centre will be insured. The person taking photos would be doing so for insurance. I assume they took your details? I would have him checked out at the hospital.
If he's fine then fair enough, accidents happen, move on. If not, make a claim. Either way have h checked out in case of future repercussions. If you have concerns and want to know it is addressed write to the managing agent of the centre cc-ing the relevant council department.

NoWordForFluffy · 13/04/2023 19:56

ChocChipHandbag · 13/04/2023 18:21

Yep, I'll own that one, I did forget that we were talking about a minor when I said that. Thank you for the correction. Though I think that OP will know within much less than 3 years whether there is any lasting effect..

Sometimes the parents don't want to pursue a claim, which is why the child then has time to start a case once they hit majority.

You don't actually need an injury to last that long to get above the small claims limit in reality, in a claim where the OLA applies. It's not like RTA which has a £5k SC limit and set injury tariffs.

ShopAccident · 13/04/2023 21:14

Thank you for all the support everybody.

My son is fine, apart from the bump (that has gone down to almost nothing) he is completely back to normal.

Pearfacebananapoop I don't know who the lady was taking the photos, I thought she was just a random person as she had her coat on but she could of been a staff member on a break or something.

OP posts:
MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 13/04/2023 21:55

purpledalmation · 13/04/2023 19:44

@MissLucyEyelesbarrow I'd put money on choc chip being a solicitor. I've spoken to enough in our own case to know sense.

Absolutely not a solicitor.

  1. Missed the key point that the injured party is a minor

  2. Said this:
    People don't understand what a claim is for. It's to compensate you for financial losses incurred as a result of the accident. So for example when my relative was spinal injured in a workplace accident, the claim compensated him for house adaptations and loss of his career. You don't get money in England & Wales just to say sorry for getting a fright or having a bit of a sore head for a couple of days. If there are no losses there is no claim, even if the centre was negligent

This is so wrong that it could not be said by anyone with a working knowledge of the law on personal injury.

Most damages claimed for personal injury are general damages, for pain and suffering etc. They have nothing to do with losses suffered. Some personal injuries claims also claim for special damages, which are what choc chip is talking about - pecuniary losses. But it is 100% wrong to day that "If there are no losses, there is no claim".

WigsNGowns · 13/04/2023 22:41

Most damages claimed for personal injury are general damages, for pain and suffering etc. They have nothing to do with losses suffered. Some personal injuries claims also claim for special damages, which are what choc chip is talking about - pecuniary losses. But it is 100% wrong to day that "If there are no losses, there is no claim".

Pain and suffering is a loss though. It is a form damage just not financial damage. There is so much on this thread that is legally wrong which is the danger of listening to strangers on the internet.

An essential part of a negligence claim is damage but damage would encompass pain and suffering. If the Claimant (here OPs child who as has been pointed out is a minor) also suffers quantifiable financial damage that could also be part of the claim but pain and suffering is equally damage.

@ShopAccident you must get your child assessed for concussion as soon as possible.

@ChocChipHandbag

@ThoseDamnCrows I defend these claims on behalf of insurers for a living!

There are other types of financial loss in addition to loss of earnings, plus smallish fixed amounts for "Pain and suffering" where an injury is more than superficial. Surprise surprise, it's quite complicated. Don't be so rude.

Although big claims with loss of earnings and pension etc can be complicated to calculated, the basic principles are not complicated at all so stop trying to pretend they are. All foreseeable loss and damage caused by a negligence is recoverable - this is in two parts (1) general damages - a court assessed amount for pain suffering and loss of amenity and (2) special damages which is quantifiable financial loss caused by the injury. This itself is divided into past losses and future losses. These can include things like loss of earnings, cost of aids or adaptations due to the injury; cost of treatment if it is paid for; damage to property (crashed car for example or damaged clothes or glasses); cost of care or assistance during recovery.

It is also rubbish to say there are "smallish fixed amounts for pain and suffering".

There are guidelines specifically the Judicial College Guidelines 16th Ed (which are just that guidelines - guidelines for a Judge assessing damage to take into account) not "fixed amounts" for pain and suffering. The worse the injury and the more serious the consequences the larger the award.

For example (Very obviously not this case but I mention it as an illustration of why it's nonsense to say you only get smallish fixed amounts for pain, suffering and loss of amenity) Section (A) - Injury Resulting from Brain Damage (a) Very Severe the guideline range for pain suffering and loss of amenity (also known as general damages) is £282,010 to £403,990 which on any view is not 'a small fixed amount"

The trouble with writing nonsense like this is that other people with other serious injuries may read it and be completely misled into thinking they have no claim worth anything and it's not worth even exploring it.

The bottom end of the brain/head injury scale is e) Minor Injury where brain damage, if any, will have been minimal. The Court takes into account

  • (i)the severity of the initial injury;
  • (ii)the period taken to recover from any symptoms;
  • (iii)the extent of continuing symptoms;
  • (iv)the presence or absence of headaches.
The bottom of the bracket will reflect full recovery within a few weeks. The guideline range is £2,210 to £12,770

There is a separate section in the guidelines for minor injuries which for injuries where there is a complete recovery within seven days gives a range of a few hundred pounds to £690.

All of this is very fact dependent on the facts of particular case, the nature of the injury, the long term symptoms and the loss of amenity of a particular claimant.
So a tennis obsessed boy who breaks his arm and misses his once in a life time opportunity to be a ball boy at the Wimbledon final which he is desperate to do and was looking forward hugely to has a greater loss of amenity than one who breaks his arm who doesn't play sport and is only mildly inconvenienced.

ShopAccident · 13/04/2023 22:47

Thank you WigsNGowns but he is ok.

OP posts:
WigsNGowns · 13/04/2023 22:50

@ShopAccident

Seriously please consider this and even if you think he is ok keep a close eye on him. Although they usually appear within 24 hours, concussion symptoms can eventuate up to three weeks after a blow to the head, see here:

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/head-injury-and-concussion/

nhs.uk

Head injury and concussion

Read about head injuries and concussion, what symptoms to look out for, when to seek medical advice or treatment and how to care for a minor head injury.

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/head-injury-and-concussion

ShopAccident · 13/04/2023 22:56

Yes I am, WigsNGowns. I read that yesterday.

OP posts:
Rosula · 13/04/2023 23:10

purpledalmation · 13/04/2023 19:41

This is correct in law. I'm currently in a legal case for a minor for negligence, and this is the case. There must be lasting significant damage for a solicitor to even look at this. Yes, the time limit is up to the age of 18 for a minor (parent is the litigent friend) after 18 the child themselves has 3 years.

No, it is not correct in law. You are talking about the practicalities of what cases a solicitor might or might not take on, which is a different issue.

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 13/04/2023 23:36

Pain and suffering is a loss though. It is a form damage just not financial damage

Sure, but Choc Chip asserted that only pecuniary losses will be compensated:
People don't understand what a claim is for. It's to compensate you for financial losses incurred as a result of the accident. So for example when my relative was spinal injured in a workplace accident, the claim compensated him for house adaptations and loss of his career. You don't get money in England & Wales just to say sorry for getting a fright or having a bit of a sore head for a couple of days.

I'm not claiming to have the expertise to advise the OP myself. I'm just pointing out that Choc Chip is talking out of her arse, and the OP would be well-advised to disregard all she has said.

NoWordForFluffy · 14/04/2023 11:59

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 13/04/2023 23:36

Pain and suffering is a loss though. It is a form damage just not financial damage

Sure, but Choc Chip asserted that only pecuniary losses will be compensated:
People don't understand what a claim is for. It's to compensate you for financial losses incurred as a result of the accident. So for example when my relative was spinal injured in a workplace accident, the claim compensated him for house adaptations and loss of his career. You don't get money in England & Wales just to say sorry for getting a fright or having a bit of a sore head for a couple of days.

I'm not claiming to have the expertise to advise the OP myself. I'm just pointing out that Choc Chip is talking out of her arse, and the OP would be well-advised to disregard all she has said.

These type of threads always bring out the armchair lawyers who have no bloody clue about what they're talking about.

BusterGonad · 14/04/2023 12:16

This thread is hilarious, sorry Op but the squabbling is making me chuckle. I'm glad your son is feeling better. It must've been scary for you.

ShopAccident · 14/04/2023 13:03

Glad it's made you smile BusterGonadGrin

It's now 48 hours since it happened & luckily he's still his usual self.

OP posts: