Tenants wanting money back…

[Newyearnewus]

I rent a cottage out to a young couple. All done and managed via an estate agency so all legal stuff is covered and their deposit is protected.

Couple were contracted for a year and paid upfront- as a result I gave them a small discount on the rent. I decided this year I’ll be selling the property so I told them in advance so it wouldn’t come as a shock. Legally I couldn’t serve them notice straight away so I informed them of my intentions out of politeness and agreed to touch base later in the year and they were fine. Unsure of what happened next but they then started panicking, worrying I was going to evict them etc etc. Despite both the agency and myself reassuring them that A. I would never do that and B. I couldn’t legally even if I wanted to, they then started looking for somewhere else and said they wanted to leave. They asked if i would agree to this as they would actually be in breach of their contract by doing so but i agreed. They gave their notice and all good.

obviously they paid up front so upon vacating the property I will owe them 3 months rent which I’ll return to them. I’ve had the amount calculated by the accounts team in the agency who manages this for me and it’s all in order. However the agency are saying the couple want this money back now and want me to pay it this week despite them now due to leave for another 6 weeks.

I’m apprehensive about doing this as there’s no guarantee they’ll actually vacate when they say they will. Neither parties have signed anything stating the new arrangement either. I am being unreasonable by suggesting it’ll be paid back to them the day they leave?

Unfortunately the rental market doesn’t lend itself to that. No tenant has the luxury of a tenancy ending exactly on the day when a lovely new tenancy is available to start. Properties are now very hard to find and secure, and when you get offered one, it’s a take it now or lose it proposition. You are actually lucky they found one with a start date within 3 months of the original contract end date and it’s better for you it was 3 months early instead of 3 months late. Your tenants did not “panic” they were proactive.

They've taken the piss thrice now, once expecting a discount for paying up front (people either do that because they're desperate to secure the property or because they know they won't pass the financial checks, ie you're doing them a favour, so no discount!).

They didn’t expect a discount, OP offered a discount. And in todays rental market offering a year upfront is common as there are literal bidding wars happening to secure properties amongst many many tenants who ALL pass the financial checks. And no estate agent is going to risk their ARLA standinh by accepting any tenant that does not pass the financial checks even if they pay a year up front. Your rationale makes no sense whatsoever.

Once wanting money back because they've decided to leave early and a third time wanting the money back before they're actually leaving. I wouldn't be trusting them not to take the piss again.
They didn’t decide to leave early, the OP decided to sell. They then proactively secured another tenancy well before the deadline. In the current rental market you’re having a laugh if you think that tenants can pick a day on the calendar and be sure of a new home. That’s not personal preference or “taking the piss”. As for wanting their money back, it’s legally and contractually their money and has been since the day the OP signed off on their notice to leave the property and the new tenancy end date was agreed on. Which was not a favour from OP to the tenants, this is in accordance with the tenancy contract that the tenant can give notice to end a tenancy early. The tenants have followed the contract, they are sticking to the contract. The contract allows them to do this. The OP owes them their money for the future months of rent back now, not after they move out.

It's their money, you need to give it back. It's not the deposit, which obviously you don't give back until they vacate.

You wanted them to leave, you've agreed that they can end the tenancy early, now you need to return the 3 months rent which they paid you in good faith.

If they were paying monthly then you wouldn't have that money.

You should be thankful they've found somewhere to move to and that you're not having to go down the eviction route.

No, I wouldn't refund until they have vacated.

No, after they vacate. Stand your ground.

No you don't give back the deposit until they leave. Otherwise how do you know they'll actually leave?! Stick to the formalities, it's there for a reason.

Why didn’t you just give them 2 months notice at 10 months?

You could have avoided all this. Why sell from under them?

OP isn’t selling from under them, she was happy for the full year’s tenancy to run.

This. No way would I give them the money now.

I can see their point. You have accepted their notice ie the tenancy is no longer a fixed term, one year one. They aren’t, I assume, asking for a refund for the notice period, just the part beyond the notice period? And you also have a deposit which would be called upon for any damages?

Well, she should have not told them.

I’ve rented for 10 years. I’d rather not know my landlords intentions. I’d rather just have a strategy in mind for when I can get out, when they can get me out.

Eg been in current flat 18 months. Legally you can’t be evicted within 6. We had a 6 month break, and for some reason would have to give notice at 4. This passes, so now we have to stay for 12 months. And if they wanted us to leave at 12, they’d have to tell us at 10. Hear nothing. 2 weeks before anniversary, they ask if we want to sign up for another 6/12 months. We say we’d prefer a rolling (1 for us, 2 for them, legal standard). This was our risk, they could give us 2 months or serve us with Section 21 if we didn’t accept. They got back in touch a few months ago, we reiterated that we are unsure of our future plans and can’t commit to long chunks. So here we are 18 months down the line. Obviously it’s not nice knowing you could get an email telling you that you’ve got 2 months to leave, but this is the price we pay for having the option of giving 1 months notice.

I think these tenants would have just felt the same way I felt. I’ve never paid rent a day late in 10 years, and 1 place we paid 12 months up front to secure (stayed for the year).

As you’ve made the error of telling them the plan, freaked them out (even if it looks like they have unnecessarily), I’d be inclined to give the money back. I assume these guys aren’t dodgy or you wouldn’t have let it to them in the first place.

Worst case their leaving date rolls around and they haven’t left…you serve section 21, unless they want their credit history destroyed, they’ll leave. I just don’t think a young couple in a cottage are the sorts of people to screw you over.

This isn’t about the deposit. It’s about the 3 months rent she is no longer owed.

Let’s say the rent is £1000pcm, that’s £3000 plus approx £1250 (5 weeks for deposit). So £4250. Albeit the deposit is in a Tenancy deposit scheme, so untouchable. But abstractly, the tenant must feel slightly aggrieved that the landlord has £4000+ of their money that technically is no longer hers.

Hmm, I would prefer to have the additional notice (as others have said, it’s not always easy to find a place within 2 months) and I can see why OP wanted to say.

She can't serve section 21 at 9 months as their contract is for 12 months unless they sign a new contract for 9 Months instead. Also when is section 21 being abolished?

Well, the proof was in the pudding wasn’t it?

They found a property fairly easily and are moving within weeks.

Why? Because most properties are listed either ready to move in, or a date only 3/4 weeks into the future. As tenants can give 1 months notice, and estate agents are lazy/incompetent most properties listed are going to be available within this time frame.

Looking at the 24 properties listed in my area (city centre) in the last 14 days. I’d say two thirds are either ready to move in Now, or date within 4 weeks. Rest are dates in July, one is Sept.

So when she accepted their request to end the tenancy early, she should have foreseen a swift exit, and then agreed about the extra money there and then when she had leverage. She now has no leverage, if they are wealthy with lawyer connections I would imagine they could threaten legal action for the 3 months.

Assume there was an amendment to the contract when she agreed to let them leave early. Unless “in writing” is legally binding? Which I doubt it is.

Section 21 was announced to be abolished 4 years ago. So, yeah, it’s not being hurried through.

Just to update everyone as this was from last month.

I withheld the money afterall and I’m glad I did as the week before they were due to leave they started to say they wouldn’t. As I suspected this is because they hadn’t found somewhere else to go. They gave their notice without having found a place to move to.

In the end they did leave after arranging to stay with a friend. As soon as the property was vacant I returned the outstanding money. As it happens they’ve also left my property in a bit of a mess so I’ll need to claim on some of the deposit to cover repairs.

To the poster who said I was “selling from under them”. Read my post again. I was selling at THE END OF THEIR TENANCY. The chose to ask to leave early which I honoured. I was not going to sell with them in situ or ask them to leave so I could sell.

Thanks

Glad it worked out!

Fair enough. They don’t sound like great tenants.

Clearly you got that vibe from them, and felt it necessary to keep the money as leverage. It’s sad they have caused damage, and tried to mess you around.

I guess I was thinking from my perspective where we’ve caused minimal damage, always paid on time, been very helpful to our landlords.

Find it bizarre they gave notice without having multiple options lined up, or at least a feeling the market was navigable.