Query re child arrangement order

[Thisismyusernamefornow]

I have two children (12 & 9) and split with their dad 5 years ago. We have a routine of Monday/Tuesday with him, Wednesday/Thursday with me and Friday Saturday Sunday alternating - these are days he instigated and on the whole work well.

I am a single parent and I work full time, I also have no family within a 200 mile range. Ex works for himself and has a partner and two more children.

Communication is at all time low. He refuses to respond to texts. Won't answer the phone. If he's bringing the children back to me he does this in his own time and not as arranged. He collected mt daughter from a sports event last week and refused to answer me when he'd be back. He had a school friend with him and had been contacting her mother (as she updated me) so I know he COULD respond, he was just refusing to contact me. His partner was helping with arrangements but has now backed away saying she doesn't (understandably) want to be in the middle.

There are times I need to change this arrangement (work/life) and always ask him first if this works. The same with any holiday I want to take. He doesn't give me the same courtesy and generally "tells" me when he's taking the children away. He also doesn't need to ask me to swap days because he's always got somebody at home (his partner) to pick up if he has to work away etc, which living on my own I don't have the ability to do.

Over the years I have relied on him when both children were at after school clubs at the same time and in different locations for example as obviously I can't pick up in two places at once. Fwiw these are always clubs that he's organised without asking me and usually on the days the children are meant to be with me.

As time has gone by I've realised he's got more control than I am comfortable with and it's making it difficult for me to make plans etc. it's also creating situations where some weeks he's actually got 70/30 care rather than 50/50.

I am considering a child arrangement order. I haven't done this before as believed it was like take away any flexibility but the more he has everything stacked in his favour etc and how he now refuses to discuss anything with me I know I need something from an authority in place so he doesn't have ultimate control.

My question is, when a court order is in place, is there any flexibility available as although I try to stick the the days we have sometimes this isn't possible.

Thank you.

Hey. Bless you, it’s not easy at the best of times . I’ve been in and out of family court for 10 years with my dreadful ex partner, so I’m only speaking from my own experience here. I think it’s standard for a child arrangement order to be varied as agreed between the parents, so basically you have the order and then if you want to change it and you both agree that’s fine. However, if you need flexibility or to change it because of work and he doesn’t agree, I don’t know what happens in that instance. Hopefully someone else can come back to you on that

sounds like he’s being rude and obstructive and has some kind of stick up his arse, I know it’s completely unfair but so is the family court system, realistically I suspect your best bet for a quiet life is to repair the relationship with him a bit. I know it’s a shit thing to say because you are already being reasonable and he is being entitled and controlling from the sounds of it, but, you’re more likely to be able to get what you need that way.

court is not pleasant and it’s either expensive if you have representation, or in terms of your own resources if you are a litigant in person. If he has got a lot more money than you ultimately the balance of power will not be equal. I’m sorry to say. you will obviously be expected to try Mediation as well.

if you have an arrangement in place and he breaches it, it’s got to be really serious before anyone will do anything (ie child abduction type stuff), he can easily just say he’s lost his phone or he was driving, a late return won’t be looked at as being a big deal, if he books stuff during your time, then you will be expected to be flexible… Having an order in place doesn’t stop people being dicks unfortunately. Once you enter the family court system, you are essentially adversaries, it could accelerate issues between you and atm you have some precious goodwill.

Given the age of your kids, the situation is not going to drag on for years. They’ll be able to jump on a bus and get themselves home and take care of themselves before you know it, if you can avoid family court and repair the relationship with him somehow I would say that’s likely to be better, cos court doesn’t protect you, and it might just give you more problems than you’ve got at the moment. Maybe even think about spending the money, you would have to spend on legal representation on getting a little bit of wraparound childcare? Maybe a sensible A level student who wants to earn a few quid…I don’t know, I know it’s not easy but court can be traumatic and pointless, I’m not saying don’t do it, but it might not really help.

personally, I’ve had to put up with years of coercive control and my ex neglecting our kid whilst using the court system to harass me, it’s been horrendous. Recently I read how to Win Friends and influence people and used all of that stuff to charm him, it was absolutely amazing, the difference it made! Just knowing the right things to say, get him on side…handling him basically. It helped. It’s all falling apart again because he’s such a massive penis but It did help for a while

Good luck, I do feel for you.

Thank you for replying, you've given me lots to think about. I'm sorry you've had to spend the last ten years in family court too. Exhausting.

I don't believe there's a way to make friends again. If anything it's going to get worse as I am seeking support from a solicitor for a settlement agreement that has gone awry, which is going to send him into a frenzy anyway (he believes he's above the law and doesn't ever have to be accountable and to be fair he's got away with this through his life in one way or another so why would he start now?).

I guess if a court order won't be able to make him tow the line, then what will? It sounds like I've just got to keep being tormented by him and ignore it best I can and hope for the best. This is truly depressing.

I agree with @Thisismyusernamefornow , stay out of family court if you possibly can. It will only make things worse.
I'm sorry. It's shit.

I think if he has 70/30 sometimes Family Court could go against you and you end up the NRP with 30% which could make the Settlement even worse as he'd then be able to argue for CM.

If you can stay out of court do.

I went to court when ExH took me, and even though it was okish for me, I did get told off a few times by the judge for obstructing contact (even though I wasn't!) and threatened that I'd lose custody/residency, it wasn't a pleasent experience even though I ended up the RP - but that was purely because ExH dropped out towards the end and stopped turning up.

Court is not the only way you can assert yourself, don’t forget that. All is not lost.

anything that you want from him, he can withhold from you as a power play, you want him to answer the phone? He can withhold it just to let you know who is in charge. The same with agreeing to change childcare arrangements when you need support.

the less you can ask from him, the better I would imagine. So try to get other support around yourself if you can.

I managed to keep the peace for ages by asking my ex for things I didn’t even want which he could say no to. Seemed to reassure him that he was in charge and then was magnanimous enough to allow me to do what was needed for our kid when they came up. Or, agreeing with him and then just doing the other thing anyway, and telling him some external factor forced my hand and being faux outraged by it. I mean, it’s fucked up but as long as he thought I knew my place I was able to get on and do what needed to be done without him getting in the way.

it’s staggering how quickly kids change from 12, they suddenly become so independent. Hang in there, this won’t be forever and if it does get really bad you’ve still got the option of Court, but use it as a last resort. I suspect you’ll be able to find other ways to manage it.

@Donotneedit I've also found this with my Ex, ask him for things he can say no to and he's much more amenable when it comes to the things I do need. It's all about control

So messed up! But yeah, you have to do what you can do

If he arranges things on your time you can say no I can't do that but you are welcome to take them and drop them back home to me.

You are coming to the end of needing childcare so hang on in there.

Any local teens 16+ you could employ as babysitters after school inform the youngest or in the evening? You need to focus your energy and money on not needing him.

As for holiday book early and inform him but realise he has 3 other people to consider as well.

Urgh, role on 2/3 years when even the youngest will have more more of a day.

*say

Agree with other poster that this improves with age. DD is now a teenager and barely sees him. Ex kept DD longer than he was permitted, returned her at his leisure on his schedule never informing me, refused to respond, wouldn't cooperate on holiday times, changed arrangements constantly expecting me to just fall in line... under no circumstances would he ever help. I asked him once was I was ill I couldn't get out of bed. His was response was to suggest a change of residence was clearly needed as I evidently ''can't cope''. All the while dictating when / what he wanted. Lawyer indicated I could return to court but they realistically can't do much, and I'd end up perpetually in court. I begged borrowed and stole to get the right childcare to work and never asked him for help again. I agreed to everything he wanted, stopped objecting when he messed me around.

Truthfully if I hadn't just put up and shut up the whole 10 years would have been back and forth to court. There was always something.. It was a long 10 years... letting him feel he was calling the shots made for a calmer life. It does still make me angry that my life dried up completely because of him and having to always be at home in case he brought her home early. That's abuse for you, Divorce sadly doesn't mean it stops. The courts enable it by giving power to these men.

This all makes me so sad and so angry that these people can get away with this and always having the other person over a barrel.

Some good points raised about "allowing" him to think he's got control (which is ultimately what it's about).

I'm completely paranoid now about using childcare or a babysitter on an evening that I may go out when the children are with me because this is used again me too. I try to keep nights out to the weekends they're with Their dad but sometimes things come up on the weekends with me and I will have to use a babysitter. He throws this in my face. Would this cause a problem if we do go to court?

No I really don’t think that would be used against you at all if the kids are safe and happy and it’s not all the time/you’re not going out and getting totally wankered (chance would be a fine thing!)
sounds like he’s got you feeling like you have no space, that’s not true. He can have a moan at you but aside from that, what would be the repercussions?
The courts don’t want to micromanage and if anything you could point out he is being controlling trying to meddle in your parenting. As long as the kids are alright and the care is appropriate I can’t see the problem.
How do you fear it will be used against you?

And yes agree it’s totally fucked up.letting go of hopes for fairness might help you focus on your exit plan. You’re nearly there x

Oh my god I’m going through the same, with someone who won’t communicate the court may well order a parenting app. I’ve lost earnings due to my ex just dropping me in it, I have a child arrangements order and he’s made changes with no agreement, we are back in court soon, I would apply to court if it’s bad, the court take communication issues seriously (my child is primary years) he just controls and dictates arrangements and due to a health concern I end up with extensive periods of time to try and sort work and childcare to accommodate. I would suggest apply to court and get a detailed court order, also I have represented myself the whole way

I completely agree with this

I don't know how it could be used against me but if there's a way, I fear it would happen.

He spent a long time threatening me if I left and told me back then he'd make me regret it and the words are still ringing in my ears.

He often says he won't do a) and if don't do b) etc.

You can ask for flexibility though and the court may grant this but it then opens up to what each parent seems as flexible, mins says it needs to be flexible due to my exes health condition, however when I did look after our child on a time I was being flexible he pissed off on holiday

I think the 12 year old would have some say if you went to court and possibly even the 9 year old.

Do keep records or all the times he messes you about won’t communicate etc

Court orders can put things in place - like a weeks notice for extra days - 6 weeks notice for holidays with full details of flights hotels etc

He can’t stop you using child care - he uses his new partner for that - it works both ways.

I'd hate to put them in this situation. It's a lot for a child to bear the weight of isn't it?

I am also fearful of the manipulation tactics that my ex would employ in this situation.

The more I write the more I realise how scared of him I am and what could happen.

I guess it’s really good to check in with other people about the things you’re worrying about. I would say definitely don’t worry about getting some appropriate childcare, that is what your kids need you to do in their best interests, so you can be happy and healthy and give them what they need. That is 100% fair enough. Obviously it needs to be reasonable and safe, you could ask a trusted professional if you’re really not sure, a gp or teacher might be able to reassure you.

have a really good look on the Cafcass website, there’s loads of information about what they expect from parents, obviously they are often arseholes in real life, but it does give you a really clear idea of what the system expects from you. My ex has breached our very detailed court order relentlessly, nobody gives a shit. Literally has not made any difference whatsoever to our lives. He’s just got away with it. They’re only worth something if people follow them, but definitely good luck to anyone in that position!

lastly, how can you support yourself to maybe feel a bit less anxious cos it sounds like he is in your head a bit, he needs booting out, that’s your space! I recon if you start slowly building your own support network you’ll feel better, maybe some lovely soothing cbt anxiety podcasts…

By the way, regarding your kids having a say, in my experience…Cafcass would interview them, it’s not something you or your ex would be expected to ask them about and if they are leaned on Cafcass are good at spotting it and it looks very bad. They won’t be interested in what the nine-year-old has got to say I wouldn’t imagine, not really. They will probably just say the kids are fine.if they do get interviewed it’s incredibly short and lightweight. Not something to focus on tbh, don’t think you’ll end up in that situation and if you do it’s not that bad.

you do sound anxious, bless you, I reckon that’s the key. probably things are not as scary as they seem. keep talking about what’s worrying you tho, shine the light on it.

Its a little unclear if that's what you meant, but if Ex regularly has 70% contact he could use that to get the order formalised as him having majority custody.

@EliflurtleTripanInfinite it is absolutely not an agreed 70 percent but where he's been able to pick up from school and sometimes if one child has to be at school much earlier than the other he's taken them home that night so we can do separate school runs in-line with the child's needs then his time creeps up with one child. He's also very good at taking my daughter away for the weekend for a shared hobby (on weekends she should be with me) which also tips the balance in his favour. I've allowed this as my daughter begs for her to be able to go to these events, and I haven't wanted to let her down. It sounds like I've played into his hands.

Well you know his game now so when he asks/imposes extra nights state it needs to be a swap.