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Legal matters

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Original poster

Lodger or something else?

26 replies

GnomeDePlume · 30/12/2022 21:33

Asking this question on behalf of a family member. Can anyone advise please?

A family member has been taken extremely ill. It is likely that their recovery will take months or years. They are currently in hospital and will be for the foreseeable future and are not able to communicate their wishes.

There is a live in partner of the family member who does not contribute financially but is now acting as 'master of the house' to the adult children of the ill family member.

What tenancy rights, if any, does the partner of the family member have? Does he have the right to live in the family home indefinitely?

Any advice or directions to where we could get advice would be gratefully received.

OP posts:
cortisolqueen · 30/12/2022 22:36

I'm guessing the houseguest pays no bills/doesn't have his name on the deeds/mortgage/tenancy agreement etc?

If not, he has no legal claim. However if your family member doesn't have capacity to tell/ask him to leave, and there is no power of attorney set up, it's more complicated.

You need to get proper legal advice to tell you how to go about gaining some kind of control over family member's affairs while she is not well, and how to go about giving him notice. I'd start with family law, then property law.

Original poster
GnomeDePlume · 31/12/2022 01:01

Thank you. Yes, steps are being taken by the adult children of the family member to gain legal power to manage the family member's affairs.

No, his name is not on any bills and he doesn't make any financial contribution. I will advise the adult children to not allow any bills to get transferred into his name.

The concern is that he may think he has more rights than he does. The relationship with the family member was already at breaking point when the health crisis occurred.

OP posts:
cortisolqueen · 31/12/2022 01:03

Definitely important to get legal advice pronto to stop him getting his feet even more under the table.

SoSweetAndSalty · 31/12/2022 01:17

I agree that you need proper legal advice for this. One thing that your family might consider is offering the guy a cash incentive to leave the house quickly.

BasiliskStare · 31/12/2022 01:27

Someone better than me will say but LPOA would be good and there is another one which is separate which is a Health POA - both can be done via a solicitor but you can do them yourselves via a gov . uk website - I suspect this is what DGCs are doing. If family member is not married then his rights as such aren't that great.
A friend of mine - her mother married a chap when she was elderly and he immediately took out one of those equity release schemes , I would love to think he was fond of her - but it just looked like he was in search of her money ( relatively small bungalow in a not very expensive area of the country - but he emptied the coffers. )

Original poster
GnomeDePlume · 31/12/2022 01:33

I will talk to the young adults involved about getting some legal advice. I might well offer to pay for that.

It is a difficult situation all round. The young adults are all in their early 20s. They are having to deal with their mother being seriously ill and incapacitated and try to work out what to do for the best for their mother. Part of this is protecting her assets.

OP posts:
TerraNostra · 31/12/2022 01:38

Christ, have some empathy for the person whose partner is seriously ill.

Schnooze · 31/12/2022 01:40

Are the adult kids on the tenancy?

Original poster
GnomeDePlume · 31/12/2022 01:41

BasiliskStare · 31/12/2022 01:27

Someone better than me will say but LPOA would be good and there is another one which is separate which is a Health POA - both can be done via a solicitor but you can do them yourselves via a gov . uk website - I suspect this is what DGCs are doing. If family member is not married then his rights as such aren't that great.
A friend of mine - her mother married a chap when she was elderly and he immediately took out one of those equity release schemes , I would love to think he was fond of her - but it just looked like he was in search of her money ( relatively small bungalow in a not very expensive area of the country - but he emptied the coffers. )

The difficulty is that the family member doesn't currently have capacity to put LPAs in place so I believe this goes to the Office of the Official Guardian (or some name similar to that). The appropriate steps are being taken to do that but there is a time delay in that.

I have advised the young adults to not let any bills eg utilities be put in the partner's name.

This has all been a wake up call to DH and me to get our own LPAs in place.

OP posts:
Original poster
GnomeDePlume · 31/12/2022 01:44

Schnooze · 31/12/2022 01:40

Are the adult kids on the tenancy?

The home is owned by the ill family member but there is a mortgage on it.

OP posts:
Mumma · 31/12/2022 01:46

...if she makes a recovery and her partner has been ousted against her wishes that could cause more friction, surely? Capacity is time and decision specific so you dont just lack capacity in general. Someone may not have capacity to understand complex matters but could still have capacity to decide where they live or who they want to reside in their home. Its quite complex. OPG will also insist she is informed of any application and given an opportunity to contest it should she wish. That is the same for every single person an application is made for.

Schnooze · 31/12/2022 01:53

What’s to stop him apply for power of attorney instead/as well as the kids? Does anyone know what would happen then? Do the kids have more rights than a partner?

Allsnotwell · 31/12/2022 01:58

The kids do have more rights as next of kin. If they aren’t married he’s just a lodger (who pays no bills)

Original poster
GnomeDePlume · 31/12/2022 02:01

The concern is to make sure that the family member's assets are protected for the time being. They may be needed at a later date to fund more suitable accommodation if that is necessary.

There is no plan to evict the partner. At the moment the young adults want to know what his rights are. Keeping in mind that he is making no financial contribution.

OP posts:
BasiliskStare · 31/12/2022 02:22

@GnomeDePlume - we had this with DFIL - he would not give anyone power over his ( scant ) money and once he had had a stroke it was not possible to put a LPOA in place so we started down the track of Guardianship - it is somewhat lengthy but possible - here is a start to it but am sure your nieces etc have started this www.gov.uk/find-someones-attorney-deputy-or-guardian

It is sensible to protect your family members assets in case they need care etc which needs to be paid for

Not the same but a great friend of mine of decades - her brother is taking money out of Mum's bank account to "protect their inheritance" - that is deprivation of assets & not to be done .

I know this will not be your immediate concern but DH & I have put LPOAs in place for DCs - it is comforting to think we have done so.

Original poster
GnomeDePlume · 31/12/2022 08:58

Thank you @BasiliskStare that is the process the young adults are starting.

It is all very complicated for the young people involved. One is still a student so the mother's home is also their home.

I was asked for advice last night as the mother's partner was drunk texting to the young adults (they are staying with me for the weekend).

OP posts:
BasiliskStare · 31/12/2022 17:09

@GnomeDePlume - I can only sympathise. We started down the Guardianship route but DFIL had a stroke and sadly died before this could be done , sorry to say that but we were trying because if he had needed to go into a home of some sort , none of his children ( of which DH is one ) could have afforded that without access to the money he had ( which was not lots but above the £23k or whatever it is for free care in a home )

I think it is wise to know what his ( partner's ) rights are but I think keeping him out of any financial things would be sensible & if he were to go down the same track & this is the more cynical side of me - keep a record of the drunken texts as I believe the Office of Public Guardianship will make a decision as to who is fit to administer the Mother's money whoever applies. I think a friend is allowed to apply but not sure how that sits against family. A legal person will know better.

It's an unhappy situation , I do understand that & I very much feel for the young people involved - and this is why my father ( perfectly compus mentis ) & DH and I have all done LPOA s We used a solicitor to help , but obviously that costs money . It is possible online to do yourself but more complicated as you say & possibly more stressful.

I wish you all well , just a rubbish situation. 💐

Basilisk x

Princessglittery · 01/01/2023 01:17

Practically I would help to DCs set up a joint account and use that to pay the bills. This will make it easier to track who has paid what and to keep it the money separate. I agree don’t let the partner transfer the bills into their name.

Also think about setting up a separate email for the family member that the DC manage. This way you have a clear record of all correspondence relating to the incapacitated family member.

Get legal advice asap.

Original poster
GnomeDePlume · 01/01/2023 08:30

@BasiliskStare thank you, it is a truly horrible situation. At the moment the recovery pathway for the ill person is unclear. At some point they will probably be transferred to a longer term rehabilitation unit but that seems a long way off at the moment.

OP posts:
Allsnotwell · 01/01/2023 08:56

If the partner is making no financial contribution - how are they expecting to live when your family members in hospital? Are they still expecting a free ride?

Collaborate · 01/01/2023 09:23

Even with a POA the children cannot do what they want. They have to still try and understand the wishes of their mother.

Original poster
GnomeDePlume · 01/01/2023 13:44

Allsnotwell · 01/01/2023 08:56

If the partner is making no financial contribution - how are they expecting to live when your family members in hospital? Are they still expecting a free ride?

@Allsnotwell in short, yes. They are mainly getting maudlin drunk.

@Collaborate protecting the family member's interests and respecting their wishes is at the heart of what the young adults are trying to achieve.

OP posts:
JamMakingWannaBe · 01/01/2023 23:55

I would suggest the family member still living in the property tries to get their name on all the bills - Council Tax, water, gas, electric, netflix etc.

Phone up the home insurance and explain the situation. If there is legal cover included with this they may be able to advise about the "partner" situation. They will need to try and find the car insurance details too.

Did the parent have any kind of critical illness insurance?

I'd also suggest phoning the mortgage company. I'm assuming the parent is still getting some kind of income (for now) and that Direct Debits will continue to be paid but they may be able to offer a mortgage holiday.

Do the parent and her partner share a joint account of any kind? It would be strange for them to be living there without some sort of financial contribution.

Original poster
GnomeDePlume · 02/01/2023 08:59

@JamMakingWannaBe that is a good thought about legal cover on the home insurance. I will suggest that.

The young adults are going to be spending some of today getting together a To Do list for when places open up tomorrow. First on that list is to get a list of solicitors together to contact tomorrow to find the right one and go through what the partner's position is.

Also on the list is to contact all the mother's banks and try to get all cards stopped. It will be a pain to get them replaced but feels safer to do that for now.

The partner was supposed to financially contribute but apparently made no regular contribution. There is a MN name for this! He is a partner of a few years but not decades.

Documents such as passport, birth certificate etc are going to be put in a safe place.

This all goes to show how complicated things can get when a person's life gets derailed.

OP posts:
BasiliskStare · 02/01/2023 15:06

@GnomeDePlume I agree with @Collaborate - I certainly think that the young adults will only have their mother's interests at heart - but one thing for down the line when they have the Guardianship set up - they can be audited to ensure they have only spent mum's money for the benefit of her so making sure they keep all receipts / proof of payments paid with her money will be important and a separate bank account for Mum's money sounds sensible. But setting up the Guardianship is obviously before all that.

So sorry to make it sound more complicated but just the benefit of my experience.

You are so right that things can get complicated and stressful when things are derailed without prior arrangements . When DFIL was incapacitated without an LPA it was one of the most stressful times for us. Which is why I feel for you and the young people involved.