Page 11 | Tenants requesting a court order!

Emily2586 · 2022-10-29T20:49:33+00:00

Hi everyone, I would really be grateful for some advice. I have a property in England which I would like to move back to. I have given the notice on time and gave my tenants 3 months to find alternative accommodation. The three months have now passed and the tenants have come back to me saying they can not find any place to rent because of their low income and is saying they would like me to start a court order so they could give a letter to the council so that they could assist them. I wasn't expecting them to do this as I had given three months notice and I had some to them if this wasn't enough time they could let me know and it could be extended slightly to give them time to find something. I was under the impression they were finding a place to rent all this time. The tenants have been in the property for 10 years and I have no experience of about the legal proceedings in this case. I myself have kids and need to move into this property as I am currently staying with my parents until the tenants move out and I am worried that court proceedings could cost a lot. Could someone please kindly give any advice of what I could do.

Postapocalypticcowgirl · 30/10/2022 13:56

hopelesslydevotedtoGu · 30/10/2022 13:47

Firstly I would go a landlord forum and find out what is involved in evicting somebody. Check if all the necessary things are in order, e.g. is the deposit correctly stored, is your paperwork in order. If you find any issues you will need to remedy them asap. If you can get everything in order then it will be a matter of time (and money), but you will get the house back. Sorry to say, but that is part of being a landlord.

I did know somebody who was unable to issue a section 21 for various legal reasons. Their tenant was able to afford another private rental, but was well aware the landlord couldn't issue a section 21 and did not wish to leave voluntarily. The landlord ended up negotiating with the tenant and basically paying them to leave- a solicitor drew up a binding agreement to leave in exchange for a payment.

If your tenant is high earning I'd be surprised if the council would house them - surely they'd be required to rent privately if that is possible. I'm not sure how the council assess if somebody can and should rent privately?

If they actually end up getting evicted by the court that would make it very difficult to rent privately again. So I'd hope that if you start down the path to eviction, they may voluntarily leave during the process to avoid a CCJ.

If someone is homeless e.g. because they cannot find a private rental as none available, and they cannot get a mortgage for some reason, then they will be homeless, and the council have a duty to house them.

OP is also only guessing that the tenants are high earning based on the market value of their cars (which could be on finance, or could have somehow been bought cheaply).

If OP is going to struggle to afford the costs of an eviction, then paying the tenant to leave is unlikely to be a viable option- but I do agree it's often the quickest way to get vacant possession.

Section 21 evictions don't automatically lead to a CCJ.

HiveBee · 30/10/2022 13:58

Postapocalypticcowgirl · 30/10/2022 13:37

She is not going to be stuck with them for 2 years if she follows procedure correctly. Court delays aren't that bad. 6 months is more realistic. It will only be 2 years if there are issues like the ownership of the house being unclear, or no-one knows what has been done with the original deposit.

A tribunal may not agree with "market rent" if the property has significant wear and tear, let alone genuine damage, btw.

Rental arrears will not strengthen a Section 21 eviction case, there is nothing to strengthen. If you fill the paperwork in correctly, the tenant will (eventually) have to leave. Section 8 evictions are often actually more drawn out, because the tenant can pay some of the arrears just before the court date, and then the judge may choose not to order possession.

It's pretty clear you don't have a clue as to how all of this actually works legally, so your advice really isn't helpful.

All OP has to do is get the Section 21 right, and go through the steps, and she can eventually claim the costs back. The delays and costs will come if the Section 21 is wrong, so really sorting that out should be her first priority.

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@Postapocalypticcowgirl she has absolutely nothing to lose by increasing the rent in the meantime it works by sharpening the focus of the tenants to get out and then hopefully won’t even come to a section 21 hearing. If the rent is unaffordable that also circumvents the need for intentional homelessness in the eyes of the council because the property is simply become unaffordable.

hopelesslydevotedtoGu · 30/10/2022 14:04

Agree expensive cars can be a misnomer - I knew somebody who got evicted due to rent arrears and they had a fairly expensive car - which was a motability car as they received disability benefits.

Han99 · 30/10/2022 14:09

mydogisthebest · 30/10/2022 08:18

They don't have young children so very very unlikely the council will help them. What will they do then?

If what the OP is saying is true sell the cars which are worth on excess of £100k and use that to pay their rent elsewhere. Or keep their cars and get on the council housing list with a ridiculous amount of assets...seems totally unfair on tax payers and those genuinely on the council waiting list.

bewarethetides · 30/10/2022 14:12

ivykaty44 · 30/10/2022 11:29

I hate how councils are happy to shit all over good landlords and their finances by allowing these things to drag on like this at such great costs to landlords. And ftr, no, I'm not a landlord. I have rented plenty of properties in the past, from both good and bad landlords. And I don't think this is right.

and how would you make sure that someone was really homeless or not? Would you be happy for a real homeless family to stay homeless whilst someone who wasn't got a council property instead?

That should not be the problem of private landlords. Councils are essentially telling private landlords with tenants who won't pay or move out to fuck off, get sucked into a financial hole of your own, potentially lose your own property and credit rating while trying to cover bills because tenants aren't paying rent and won't leave, rather than do the job we all pay taxes to help sort out.

antelopevalley · 30/10/2022 14:15

DahliaBlue · 30/10/2022 03:11

Gosh some people here are being very unsympathetic. Landlords sometimes need their properties back for personal reasons like needing a home themselves. But nothing can be done except go through the system of eviction. Like others I advise getting a solicitor. I have sympathy with both parties here.

There is nothing wrong with evicting a family to move back into a house. But renting a property is a business. So you should be aware of the law, which the OP is not.

ReformedWaywardTeen · 30/10/2022 14:25

NukaColaQuantum · 30/10/2022 10:40

The OP has quite a lot wrong, going by her own posts.

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Yep exactly.

In fact everything has been wrong.

That's not the tenants fault. And why didn't she put the rent up? My landlord has, yes we've discussed it and he's knocked it down a bit here and there but it's clear that I either pay or get on my bike

ReformedWaywardTeen · 30/10/2022 14:38

Razzle5 · 30/10/2022 11:49

There won’t be any tenancy agreement. I’d put money on it

No tenancy agreement
No LL insurance
No but to let mortgage ie bank completely unaware tenanted
No Gas and Electrical safety check

and a property on need of “major repairs”

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Probably no tax paid on earnings from the rent either. I bet no one has a clue that's rented. Hence the lack of DPS, insurance, safety certs, common sense.

PritiPatelsMaker · 30/10/2022 14:46

The OP has gone very quiet. Let's hope she's spending the time talking to a Solicitor as so many posters have suggested.

Lunde · 30/10/2022 14:50

hopelesslydevotedtoGu · 30/10/2022 14:04

Agree expensive cars can be a misnomer - I knew somebody who got evicted due to rent arrears and they had a fairly expensive car - which was a motability car as they received disability benefits.

Exactly

.... or in the case of someone I knew he was a second hand car salesman at a showroom specializing in luxury brands

caringcarer · 30/10/2022 15:04

Madness not to have LL insurance and keep house well maintained as LL can take cost of insurance and maintenance/repairs, boiler servicing and gas and electricity certificates off of their tax bill. I just can't understand why a LL would not do this. Plus from a business perspective a LL can charge more for a nice looking and we'll maintained property than one with damp or in need of repairs.

HiveBee · 30/10/2022 15:21

hopelesslydevotedtoGu · 30/10/2022 14:04

Agree expensive cars can be a misnomer - I knew somebody who got evicted due to rent arrears and they had a fairly expensive car - which was a motability car as they received disability benefits.

Disability cars aren’t usually 70 K they are they let’s be honest they’re more Peugeot than Mercedes. And if that is the situation they will be classed as vulnerable and housed fairly quickly with or without children.

Razzle5 · 30/10/2022 15:35

HiveBee · 30/10/2022 13:58

@Postapocalypticcowgirl she has absolutely nothing to lose by increasing the rent in the meantime it works by sharpening the focus of the tenants to get out and then hopefully won’t even come to a section 21 hearing. If the rent is unaffordable that also circumvents the need for intentional homelessness in the eyes of the council because the property is simply become unaffordable.

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The op “has tried to increase the rent” multiple times (although does say earlier that she hasn’t as felt sorry for them. Anyway, moving on….) but the tenant refused (too right I reckon!). So why would be any different now?

LizzieVereker · 30/10/2022 15:35

pickleandpolish · 30/10/2022 08:26

All sounds very very dodgy after your drip drip drip feed. You need to pay for proper legal advice. Rent isn't just to pay for mortgages. It should also cover repairs, insurances, safety checks etc. Sounds like your family have been running a dodgy operation to get a tenant to pay off your mortgage so you can move back in mortgage free!

This.

Razzle5 · 30/10/2022 15:38

caringcarer · 30/10/2022 15:04

Madness not to have LL insurance and keep house well maintained as LL can take cost of insurance and maintenance/repairs, boiler servicing and gas and electricity certificates off of their tax bill. I just can't understand why a LL would not do this. Plus from a business perspective a LL can charge more for a nice looking and we'll maintained property than one with damp or in need of repairs.

a LL that has never bothered to acquaint themselves with their legal requirements or indeed it would seem anything regarding renting out a property at all. So the OP

Razzle5 · 30/10/2022 15:38

Any solicitor that the Op goes to…. Their jaw is going to drop to the floor

HiveBee · 30/10/2022 15:39

Razzle5 · 30/10/2022 15:35

The op “has tried to increase the rent” multiple times (although does say earlier that she hasn’t as felt sorry for them. Anyway, moving on….) but the tenant refused (too right I reckon!). So why would be any different now?

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Well it wouldn’t it wouldn’t be optional for my tenants but then that’s because I have a watertight tenancy agreement very much depends what the OP states doesn’t it ?

ThisisAnita · 30/10/2022 15:40

Could take some time to gain possession. In cases like this you need proper legal advice otherwise could take months.

Razzle5 · 30/10/2022 15:41

HiveBee · 30/10/2022 15:39

Well it wouldn’t it wouldn’t be optional for my tenants but then that’s because I have a watertight tenancy agreement very much depends what the OP states doesn’t it ?

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I doubt the OP has a tenancy agreement, let alone a “watertight” one. Had she done so, why wouldn’t she have called up on it during the multiple times she “asked for an increase” (but all the while “feeling sorry for them because they are on a low income” and so never asking for an increase 🫤)

caringcarer · 30/10/2022 15:46

It will be hard for them to rent privately because many LL have sold up and others in process of doing so. An estate agent rang me last week just speculatively checking if any of my btl were vacant as I had used them in past. He told me he was getting between 13 and 27 applications for each 3 bedroom house within a week of them going up for rent. At the moment LL can more or less take their pick. I no longer advertise now. I have my own waiting list made up of word and mouth and family and friends of current tenants. I just check passport, ask for 2 bank statements and 2 payslips plus letter of reference if they need in rented previously.

Razzle5 · 30/10/2022 15:49

No employment contract @caringcarer ?

Miajk · 30/10/2022 15:52

No wonder rents have gone up due to landlord selling up since most people think it's acceptable to just stay at the property. OP is a landlord not a charity. Really shocked at these comments tbh

PritiPatelsMaker · 30/10/2022 15:55

Any solicitor that the Op goes to…. Their jaw is going to drop to the floor. Hopefully not literally or at least not in front of her

Somebody has already linked to the article on "how to evict".

I think the OP needs to read Tenancy Agreements, a guide for Landlords first and then Deposit Protection Schemes and Landlords so that she doesn't look like a complete idiot.

Razzle5 · 30/10/2022 15:56

PritiPatelsMaker · 30/10/2022 15:55

Any solicitor that the Op goes to…. Their jaw is going to drop to the floor. Hopefully not literally or at least not in front of her

Somebody has already linked to the article on "how to evict".

I think the OP needs to read Tenancy Agreements, a guide for Landlords first and then Deposit Protection Schemes and Landlords so that she doesn't look like a complete idiot.

I don’t think they’ll be able to hide it!

PritiPatelsMaker · 30/10/2022 15:59

I don’t think they’ll be able to hide it!

I don't think so either really, not if her posts on here are anything to go by anyway