Page 2 | Queens funeral bank holiday entitlement

BankHolidayQuestion · 2022-10-18T12:46:01+00:00

I wonder if anyone can advise me? Not sure this is a bill to die on... I work 24hrs over 3 days per week for a private company, 150-200 employees. My annual leave entitlement is 27 days (pro rata) plus 8 bank holidays. My contract states that when the number of BH is increased or decreased in a year, then my entitlement will be increased/decreased accordingly. We are technically a health care provider so were not required to close for the Queens funeral. But we did, and no staff worked. Monday is not one of my working days. Therefore full time and Monday working part timers benefited from the holiday. And anyone who was on annual leave on that day got their leave day refunded. Anyone who doesn't work Mondays has been denied any BH hours entitlement. To me this feels like discrimination against a small group of staff. I have asked for clarification a couple of times and the party line is that this was the decision of senior management and that's that. Do I have a leg to stand on? Should I push this for the sake of 5 hrs? My contract wording implies that I am entitled to it but it seems a grey area...

Original poster

BankHolidayQuestion · 18/10/2022 17:29

@Looneytune253 I can see your point of view but - consider that the dept I work in has 7 staff. We all work between 20-32 hrs, on various days, according to our needs (eg caring responsibilities at home). Our boss has to ensure we're properly staffed every day so we can't all work Mondays. So me not working a Monday is benefiting the company because it means the the other days are covered. Why should I then be penalised by not getting the same proportion of hours holiday as my colleagues who work 3 days as well but which include Mondays, which they then get to have off?

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Original poster

BankHolidayQuestion · 18/10/2022 17:40

Thanks for all the comments. To be clear, We did get the extra BH for the Jubilee.

I have attached the holiday clause from my contract. Can anyone advise me categorically whether my employer is being unlawful based on this? It seems so unlikely; the top boss is an experienced and decent bloke who surely took advice, and they're generally a good and fair company to work for. It just somehow doesn't feel right giving 75% of staff the day off "for compassionate reasons" AND repaying anyone who was on leave on the day, and not treating others equally.

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PuppyMonkey · 18/10/2022 17:44

Looneytune253 · 18/10/2022 17:06

I understand mine is an unpopular opinion. I just wish there was more common sense in the world

I used to work 3 days a week - Tues, Weds and Thurs.

my colleague used to work 3 days a week - Mon, Tues and Weds.

Same pay. Same hours. Same job.

Every time there was a Monday bank holiday, she only worked two days that week - whereas I still had to work three days.

Monday bank holidays happen several times a year, so several times a year I was having to work more days than my colleague in exactly the same job.

i don’t think it’s whinging to say that’s unfair.

Fortunately, I worked somewhere who agreed!

Original poster

BankHolidayQuestion · 18/10/2022 17:47

prh47bridge · 18/10/2022 15:49

The way you've worded your OP suggests that they have adjusted your holiday entitlement pro rata but not your bank holiday entitlement. That means you are actually being given more holiday than you are entitled to. If full time staff get 27 days plus 8 bank holidays, you should get 21 days including bank holidays. If you get more than that, they are giving you more than your entitlement.

However, the critical thing here is that your contract says that your bank holiday entitlement is increased/decreased if the number of bank holidays in a year increases or decreases. They therefore could be on shaky ground saying part time staff who don't work on Mondays don't get anything. And if they pro rata your whole holiday entitlement correctly, including bank holidays, they are definitely wrong.

Not quite sure I understand your point about my holiday allowance?
I get 27 days equivalent (ie 5.4 weeks x 24 hours) A/L plus 8 days BH (ie 1.6 x 24 hrs) minus the BHs that fall on a Friday as that's one of my working days.
Do you not think that's correct? I'm confused!!

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prh47bridge · 18/10/2022 18:06

That is a strange way of working it out. However, it is correct. It works out at 168 hours which is 21 days. If full time staff were given an extra day off for the additional bank holiday, you are entitled to an extra 4.8 hours off. They are breaking the law if they don't give you this as they would be treating you less favourably than full time staff.

kitcat15 · 18/10/2022 18:31

Looneytune253 · 18/10/2022 17:05

@kitcat15 yeah actually. I just don't like the culture we have these days where everything has to be 'ultimately equal' it's ok to not get an extra day off when someone else gets that day if you don't actually work it. It's like when the sahms complain they're not entitled to free childcare (erm, you don't need it). Just be happy for those who get something nice. Don't go round trying to make everything equal all the time

Of course ts not right....are you for feckin real? 😁.... you reek of jealousy....you don't get it....so no other fucker should 🙄.... no one would ever want a Monday off seeing as 6 of bank hols are Mondays..... how would that benefit a business wanting to have staff in across the week.....its not about being nice .... its the world of business continuity....well it is in the NHS anyway

kitcat15 · 18/10/2022 18:35

Looneytune253 · 18/10/2022 17:06

I understand mine is an unpopular opinion. I just wish there was more common sense in the world

Your common sense is decidedly weird 🙄

GhostCastle · 18/10/2022 18:53

If full time staff had the bank holiday off, you are entitled to a pro rata amount. They can’t treat you less favourably because you are part time.

RockingMyFiftiesNot · 18/10/2022 19:04

My understanding is that employers don't have to award Bank Holidays to anyone. But if they award to full timers, they at legally obliged to award pro rata to part timers including those who don't normally work those days.

Princessglittery · 18/10/2022 19:07

@BankHolidayQuestion @prh47bridge has answered your query. I agree it’s a weird way to work it out but you are entitled to the extra leave.

primeoflife · 18/10/2022 21:32

givinglessfucksdaily · 18/10/2022 14:40

No one is penalised as extra hours are given on a pro rata basis

If you were not given a small increase then they are wrong , raise it to them that there should be a small additional increase of leave hours as per their policy .

Depends on your job. As a teacher you don't get them if you don't with that day

redmimi · 18/10/2022 21:46

There was no statutory right to the extra bank holiday, but your contract of employment expressly provides for entitlement to extra bank holidays. You should be given a pro-rata entitlement to take at another time.

prh47bridge · 18/10/2022 22:31

No, it doesn't depend on your job or your contract. It is governed by the law. The law is clear that part-time staff must not be treated less favourably than their full-time colleagues. If full-time staff are getting additional paid leave, part-time staff must also be given additional paid leave pro rata.

Original poster

BankHolidayQuestion · 19/10/2022 17:28

I have now emailed the CEO directly, using the information gained from this thread. I'll keep you posted! Thank you all

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Original poster

BankHolidayQuestion · 25/10/2022 11:20

I have received a reply from the CEO. I am actually speechless! I'm getting the hours back but presumably no one else will, and my reputation will now be one of being a total bitch 🙄

"I am sorry that you feel we have discriminated against staff who work part-time, although by definition none of us work the full window that the practice is open.

The Queen's funeral was a bank holiday over which businesses could decide if to be open or closed. We chose to be closed, in line with almost all General Practices across the UK.

You are quite right in stating the rules and your contract. As you know, we plan bank holiday allocations at the start of the year, but the late addition of this bank holiday was not in the plan. We discussed this with the Partners at the time and were trying to take a simplistic approach.

Any rota that is not Mon-Fri is bound to have some vagaries surrounding the benefits or drawbacks based on activities on a given day. For example, not working Mondays mean we have to back calculate all the bank holidays. I could draw examples across every site and every day of the week. We are not a strict work to rule culture by any means.
Our thinking was that "in the round" these things even themselves out. Contractually everyone is pretty fairly treated at —— as we tend to be flexible when staff request it. With that in mind, we hoped staff would see through this and treat it as a small bonus if they were contracted to work (as it was a one off event), rather than treating as a traditional bank holiday.

From your note, I can see that you do not think this is fair and would rather that we explicitly add the bank holiday allowance. I think that I have misread the situation and I hoped that you would have seen the spirit with which I hope that staff hours are recorded and monitored. With this in mind, clearly I have to agree to your request, which I do. In future, —— will clearly have to be more explicitly contractual both as an employer and with employees"

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Reallybadidea · 25/10/2022 11:32

They're wrong and they know it. That reply would absolutely incense me. A thinly-veiled threat that they will be more difficult with you from now on just because you've asked for what your legally entitled to.

Princessglittery · 25/10/2022 15:34

Weasel words to explain why they broke the law, not good. Make sure you keep that communication as I suspect you may find it useful in the future.

XanaduKira · 25/10/2022 15:46

Completely agree with @Reallybadidea & @Princessglittery

They were in the wrong, they know it but are now acting like you're in the wrong. I'd be raging and looking for another job (but I have a tendency to cut my nose off to spite my face, so don't act like me!)

kitcat15 · 25/10/2022 17:45

BankHolidayQuestion · 25/10/2022 11:20

I have received a reply from the CEO. I am actually speechless! I'm getting the hours back but presumably no one else will, and my reputation will now be one of being a total bitch 🙄

"I am sorry that you feel we have discriminated against staff who work part-time, although by definition none of us work the full window that the practice is open.

The Queen's funeral was a bank holiday over which businesses could decide if to be open or closed. We chose to be closed, in line with almost all General Practices across the UK.

You are quite right in stating the rules and your contract. As you know, we plan bank holiday allocations at the start of the year, but the late addition of this bank holiday was not in the plan. We discussed this with the Partners at the time and were trying to take a simplistic approach.

Any rota that is not Mon-Fri is bound to have some vagaries surrounding the benefits or drawbacks based on activities on a given day. For example, not working Mondays mean we have to back calculate all the bank holidays. I could draw examples across every site and every day of the week. We are not a strict work to rule culture by any means.
Our thinking was that "in the round" these things even themselves out. Contractually everyone is pretty fairly treated at —— as we tend to be flexible when staff request it. With that in mind, we hoped staff would see through this and treat it as a small bonus if they were contracted to work (as it was a one off event), rather than treating as a traditional bank holiday.

From your note, I can see that you do not think this is fair and would rather that we explicitly add the bank holiday allowance. I think that I have misread the situation and I hoped that you would have seen the spirit with which I hope that staff hours are recorded and monitored. With this in mind, clearly I have to agree to your request, which I do. In future, —— will clearly have to be more explicitly contractual both as an employer and with employees"

That’s a proper cunty reply from your employer 🙄

prh47bridge · 25/10/2022 18:35

Keep the email. If they dismiss you in the near future, this will be evidence that they have done so because you pointed out that their treatment of holiday entitlement was wrong. That is automatically an unfair dismissal.

Chasingsquirrels · 25/10/2022 23:30

I'd also be sharing that information with all of my non-Monday working colleagues so they can ensure that they also get the allowance (sorry, can't recall from the beginning of the thread if yiy were the only one).

What a properly crap response - yes you are right but we don't agree with you, but since you insist on being treated correctly...