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Original poster

Is a Litigant in person to be feared?

29 replies

Victoria2022 · 15/10/2022 18:49

Very messy divorce and have had solicitors for a year but now no more funds and have to be litigant in person.

The other side's solicitor seems to have gone into a mild panic over this, and it made me wonder why that could be? They talked of some kind of jeopardising the case and of the cross examination being ineffective or something. I assumed being litigant in person was the worst case for me but the other sides solicitor seems to be twitched about it rather than gleeful.

OP posts:
JenniferAllisonPhillipaSue · 15/10/2022 18:55

I was LiP for my divorce, about twelve years ago. It meant that my XH barrister had to open with the summary of the case, rather than me; and the judge gave them the task of drafting the resulting consent order once matters were agreed. I like to think that it cost my XH even more money - I walked away with £10k, he must have spent that much on his legal representation!

ChicCroissant · 15/10/2022 18:56

I would assume they are concerned about dealing with someone with a lack of legal expertise and that the case would be dragging on, not that they think you are going to do a good job unfortunately! Dealing with an amateur instead of a fellow professional is not always fun.

Original poster
Victoria2022 · 15/10/2022 19:15

JenniferAllisonPhillipaSue · 15/10/2022 18:55

I was LiP for my divorce, about twelve years ago. It meant that my XH barrister had to open with the summary of the case, rather than me; and the judge gave them the task of drafting the resulting consent order once matters were agreed. I like to think that it cost my XH even more money - I walked away with £10k, he must have spent that much on his legal representation!

I can see why you'd feel like this! Maybe it was the paperwork that made him jumpy!

OP posts:
Original poster
Victoria2022 · 15/10/2022 19:16

ChicCroissant · 15/10/2022 18:56

I would assume they are concerned about dealing with someone with a lack of legal expertise and that the case would be dragging on, not that they think you are going to do a good job unfortunately! Dealing with an amateur instead of a fellow professional is not always fun.

Out of interest, why does it impact on them negatively?

Is there a lot of breaks to explain things or are the expected to be less acrimonious in their approach?

OP posts:
Invisablewoman · 15/10/2022 19:21

The judge will have a greater expectation on the professionals on the other side to assist you and the court. Not represent you obviously, but they may need to do more to ensure you understand the procedure and demonstrate what steps they’ve taken to do so etc.

LSSG · 15/10/2022 19:24

It's generally annoying for lawyers dealing with litigants in person, that is all. But perfectly usual. They will manage.

Eileen101 · 15/10/2022 19:26

There's an expectation on the other side's representatives to 'assist' you in a way. They'll have to do all the drafting, provide you with the bundle etc.

Pixiedust1234 · 15/10/2022 19:33

Well after reading all of the above i get (and I could be wrong):

ExH barrister gets to do a lot more work for no extra money, with a judge checking him over. No wonder he's jumpy!

Whiskeypowers · 15/10/2022 19:36

On the flip side my ex being a LiP was great for me
will leave you to work that out

StillHurtsABit · 15/10/2022 19:37

NC to say I did this when things got desperate. I worked incredibly hard to get on top of the legal stuff.
ExHs v posh barrister threatened to make me and school age daughter homeless.
Managed to get offer upped from 1% of his wealth (which he hid during our marriage) to 10%. Then advised to accept. This was a long time ago. I felt like I’d earned it, it was so tough. I was disgusted that his legal bill would have housed a homeless family.
We’d struggled financially for years and he’d run through my limited savings when all the while his family were hiding a massive trust fund.
When we met apparently the first question his father asked him was “Is she white?” I’m not.

I’m not sure whether that’s encouraging or not @Victoria2022 but good luck whatever you decide.

Original poster
Victoria2022 · 15/10/2022 19:39

Whiskeypowers · 15/10/2022 19:36

On the flip side my ex being a LiP was great for me
will leave you to work that out

Oh that's quite frightening to hear

OP posts:
TheFormidableMrsC · 15/10/2022 20:04

I was a LIP In a messy divorce. I did an excellent job, ex-h not so much. Do your research, write copious notes, understand how the system works. Be organised, annotate everything. You can do it. It's very common these days. Good luck.

Whiskeypowers · 15/10/2022 20:24

Victoria2022 · 15/10/2022 19:39

Oh that's quite frightening to hear

Show quote history

No don’t worry
you’re not an abusive narc piece of I’m willingly assuming and therefore have control of your mental faculties

good luck

Original poster
Victoria2022 · 15/10/2022 20:47

TheFormidableMrsC · 15/10/2022 20:04

I was a LIP In a messy divorce. I did an excellent job, ex-h not so much. Do your research, write copious notes, understand how the system works. Be organised, annotate everything. You can do it. It's very common these days. Good luck.

Was ex represented?

My difficulty is I'm struggling to think straight and so not sure I can organise this like I once could have done. I'm pretty battle-weary.

It's the cross examination that worries me: can't think of the right questions to ask.

OP posts:
Original poster
Victoria2022 · 15/10/2022 20:48

@Whiskeypowers is that why he lost - couldn't control himself in front of the judge?

OP posts:
Original poster
Victoria2022 · 15/10/2022 20:49

StillHurtsABit · 15/10/2022 19:37

NC to say I did this when things got desperate. I worked incredibly hard to get on top of the legal stuff.
ExHs v posh barrister threatened to make me and school age daughter homeless.
Managed to get offer upped from 1% of his wealth (which he hid during our marriage) to 10%. Then advised to accept. This was a long time ago. I felt like I’d earned it, it was so tough. I was disgusted that his legal bill would have housed a homeless family.
We’d struggled financially for years and he’d run through my limited savings when all the while his family were hiding a massive trust fund.
When we met apparently the first question his father asked him was “Is she white?” I’m not.

I’m not sure whether that’s encouraging or not @Victoria2022 but good luck whatever you decide.

Thank you stillhurtsabit and I'm sorry you had such a hard time of it. Good luck to you also

OP posts:
Original poster
Victoria2022 · 15/10/2022 20:49

Pixiedust1234 · 15/10/2022 19:33

Well after reading all of the above i get (and I could be wrong):

ExH barrister gets to do a lot more work for no extra money, with a judge checking him over. No wonder he's jumpy!

Ah yeah, that makes sense!

OP posts:
Original poster
Victoria2022 · 15/10/2022 20:49

Eileen101 · 15/10/2022 19:26

There's an expectation on the other side's representatives to 'assist' you in a way. They'll have to do all the drafting, provide you with the bundle etc.

That part feels good I must admit.

OP posts:
Original poster
Victoria2022 · 15/10/2022 20:50

Invisablewoman · 15/10/2022 19:21

The judge will have a greater expectation on the professionals on the other side to assist you and the court. Not represent you obviously, but they may need to do more to ensure you understand the procedure and demonstrate what steps they’ve taken to do so etc.

Yeah the part about the system does scare me: there's a really good reason they go to law school 😏

OP posts:
Whiskeypowers · 15/10/2022 20:59

Victoria2022 · 15/10/2022 20:48

@Whiskeypowers is that why he lost - couldn't control himself in front of the judge?

not so much that he couldn’t control
himself more that he was in thrall to a toxic misogynistic agenda which preferred to try and shoot me down and this manifested itself in an accrual of instants as opposed to an outburst
it was everything i expected. It was still frightening and painful though

b0zza1 · 15/10/2022 21:11

@Victoria2022 it is possible to get a direct access barrister for the day of the hearing only. Most chambers will have some and if you look at local barristers chambers to the court where the case is being heard they might be listed on the website. If not, if you give the chambers a call they can let you know the direct access ones. I employed mine a week before the hearing (not that I'm recommending this). They are expensive for the one day but will do prep and post work with you. Prices vary considerably and so it's worth speaking to a few different barristers at a few different chambers. Do judges ever cross examine people on behalf of LIPs, not sure where I got that from?!

TheFormidableMrsC · 15/10/2022 23:14

@Victoria2022 No he wasn't. He went through multiple solicitors and didn't agree with any of them so decided to bring OW instead 🙄. I didn't have a choice, I simply didn't have the money for representation. My brother paid for my initial legal advice but I called a halt to that when it started to become thousands of pounds. I bought a book that explained the process in layman's terms. I used Wikivorce. I had a lovely friend come with me as a Mackenzie Friend so I felt supported. I was clear with what I wanted and the reasons why (child with SN). My ex fucked it up all by himself. I got a 100% award with a lifetime nominal order.

It doesn't matter if your ex is represented. The judge will expect fair play on both sides. Do as I did and prepare your case well. We didn't have cross examination.

Original poster
Victoria2022 · 16/10/2022 00:12

b0zza1 · 15/10/2022 21:11

@Victoria2022 it is possible to get a direct access barrister for the day of the hearing only. Most chambers will have some and if you look at local barristers chambers to the court where the case is being heard they might be listed on the website. If not, if you give the chambers a call they can let you know the direct access ones. I employed mine a week before the hearing (not that I'm recommending this). They are expensive for the one day but will do prep and post work with you. Prices vary considerably and so it's worth speaking to a few different barristers at a few different chambers. Do judges ever cross examine people on behalf of LIPs, not sure where I got that from?!

Thank you, this is worth looking into

OP posts:
Original poster
Victoria2022 · 16/10/2022 00:13

TheFormidableMrsC · 15/10/2022 23:14

@Victoria2022 No he wasn't. He went through multiple solicitors and didn't agree with any of them so decided to bring OW instead 🙄. I didn't have a choice, I simply didn't have the money for representation. My brother paid for my initial legal advice but I called a halt to that when it started to become thousands of pounds. I bought a book that explained the process in layman's terms. I used Wikivorce. I had a lovely friend come with me as a Mackenzie Friend so I felt supported. I was clear with what I wanted and the reasons why (child with SN). My ex fucked it up all by himself. I got a 100% award with a lifetime nominal order.

It doesn't matter if your ex is represented. The judge will expect fair play on both sides. Do as I did and prepare your case well. We didn't have cross examination.

Don't suppose you can remember the name of the book?

I so envy you 100%! That would bring me so much relief for the safety of our children.

OP posts:
Fraaahnces · 16/10/2022 00:22

His barrister may be bricking it because he may be thinking ex has run out of money too. I am certain that judges don’t look fondly at men who bankrupt their families because of this…