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Original poster

Late father in laws estate, advice needed

65 replies

Linnet · 10/09/2022 13:00

My dh has received a letter today, oddly not from a solicitor but from a secretarial service on behalf of fil’s wife, in regards to his late fathers Will. He has previously had a letter from a solicitor who outlined what he and his brother would inherit from the Will who the wife then decided not to use anymore.

There is a property of which FILs half has been left to my dh and his brother with the wife (2nd marriage) having a lifetime interest…

in relation to”property” and the outstanding mortgage loan if the property were to be sold then “wife” would pay in full the balance from the net proceeds. Having paid the balance, including your half share of this she would retain the other half for herself absolutely. “Wife” is seeking clarification regarding the responsibility of the monthly mortgage payment, which was in joint names and will revert.

Is this something she can legally do? Can she sell the property without the agreement of my dh and his brother? And keep any of the money leftover? Would she not have to split any money leftover between the three of them?

we are going to try to get legal advice on Monday but things are complicated by the fact that the Will was written in England and we are in Scotland.

any advice gratefully received

OP posts:
Original poster
Linnet · 10/09/2022 20:23

Hopeandlove · 10/09/2022 19:53

So both houses 25% or just one?

They have been left a 25% share of one property which was tenants in common so FIL could leave them his half of the property.

The other property which has a charge on it to a different company was joint owners so goes straight to the wife.

OP posts:
Original poster
Linnet · 10/09/2022 20:27

They have each been left a 25% share of one property which was tenants in common so FIL could leave them his half of the property.

OP posts:
1Wanda1 · 10/09/2022 20:37

If she's cut off all contact then your DH and DBil really need to instruct a solicitor to advise you/liaise with her side. Usually a life interest is on terms which mean that the lifetime beneficiary cannot sell or otherwise make significant changes to the property without the consent of the ultimate beneficiaries (your DBil and DH), and this would be the same whether they were ultimate beneficiaries of 100% or, as is the case here, 50%. The principle behind that is to ensure that their 50% share is not devalued by whatever changes/sale she makes.

To determine what she can/cannot do, you need to see the terms of the will trust.

As others have said, it does sound as though she can't afford the mortgage so wants to sell. That may be a good thing for DH, as he will receive his share and won't have to be worrying over the years about what she may be doing with the property without seeking his consent.

Definitely see a private client lawyer to get proper advice on this.

PattyMelt · 10/09/2022 20:47

I thought it was possible to get a copy of a will
Look under death and bereavement on .gov.uk

Fenella123 · 10/09/2022 20:48

Also - did your FiL have life insurance to pay off the mortgage when he died?
What a mess - my sympathies.

KickAssAngel · 10/09/2022 21:11

The wording of that letter is very uncertain. If FIL had insurance then there's no mortgage left in his half, so she can't use the full proceeds to pay off her remaining half of the mortgage. 50% of the proceeds would belong to your DH and his brother with no mortgage.

She doesn't get to cut off everyone. As executor she has legal obligations. How much money are the brothers likely to inherit if the house were sold? This could cost a lot in legal fees, but it does sound like she is trying to sell the house, and use their money to pay off her mortgage. This sounds like a nightmare. Do you think she would cooperate more if reminded that there could be legal repercussions if she tries to break the terms of the will?

Seemslikeaniceday · 10/09/2022 21:40

PattyMelt · 10/09/2022 20:47

I thought it was possible to get a copy of a will
Look under death and bereavement on .gov.uk

It is but only after probate has been granted.

Original poster
Linnet · 10/09/2022 22:49

1Wanda1 · 10/09/2022 20:37

If she's cut off all contact then your DH and DBil really need to instruct a solicitor to advise you/liaise with her side. Usually a life interest is on terms which mean that the lifetime beneficiary cannot sell or otherwise make significant changes to the property without the consent of the ultimate beneficiaries (your DBil and DH), and this would be the same whether they were ultimate beneficiaries of 100% or, as is the case here, 50%. The principle behind that is to ensure that their 50% share is not devalued by whatever changes/sale she makes.

To determine what she can/cannot do, you need to see the terms of the will trust.

As others have said, it does sound as though she can't afford the mortgage so wants to sell. That may be a good thing for DH, as he will receive his share and won't have to be worrying over the years about what she may be doing with the property without seeking his consent.

Definitely see a private client lawyer to get proper advice on this.

We are going to see if we can get legal advice, I’m not sure if there will be a solicitor in our small city who can cover English law though which might mean having to look at bigger cities.

we don’t know if there was any life insurance. I’d have thought if there was then the mortgage would have been paid off and this wouldn’t be an issue which makes me think there might not be any. FIL was a wealthy man so I can’t imagine him not having life insurance which is what makes it all so odd.

Once probate has been granted and we can see the Will and the terms of the trust I guess we’ll have more of an idea of where they stand. So long as she doesn’t put the property on the market as soon as she gets the grant of probate.

OP posts:
1Wanda1 · 10/09/2022 23:04

@Linnet. I am a solicitor (English). You don't need to look only in your town, or even nearby. You can "see" your solicitor over Teams, or just consult on a call - and indeed this is the more usual way of doing things post-COVID. I very rarely meet with clients in person. I think with private client matters there is more of a desire to meet in person (on the part of the client), but this is absolutely not necessary and I would say probably "wastes" more of your money as there's all the pleasantries at the start of an in-person meeting - and you're paying in 6 minute increments.

I would look for a solicitor specialising in private client work (probate) and contact them and ask for an appointment over phone or Teams. For reference, I'm based in London, wfh a couple of days a week, and my clients are based in London, the Midlands, Durham, Dubai, America, Libya - all over the place. I've only seen one client in person in the past 6 months and that was at a court hearing.

shandon14 · 10/09/2022 23:05

I had to call Land Registry recently about a charge on my property, this charge alerts me if anyone tries to sell the property. I can't tell you how helpful Land Registry were in working through a few things with me. It's worth giving them a call to see if you could have a similar charge so that any attempt to convey the property could be flagged to your DH.

Original poster
Linnet · 10/09/2022 23:16

KickAssAngel · 10/09/2022 21:11

The wording of that letter is very uncertain. If FIL had insurance then there's no mortgage left in his half, so she can't use the full proceeds to pay off her remaining half of the mortgage. 50% of the proceeds would belong to your DH and his brother with no mortgage.

She doesn't get to cut off everyone. As executor she has legal obligations. How much money are the brothers likely to inherit if the house were sold? This could cost a lot in legal fees, but it does sound like she is trying to sell the house, and use their money to pay off her mortgage. This sounds like a nightmare. Do you think she would cooperate more if reminded that there could be legal repercussions if she tries to break the terms of the will?

We think the letter is something that the wife has asked the secretarial service to type up. It’s not from a solicitor or even on headed paper. We had to Google the address to see where it had come from.

The property is in central London hence the reason dh and dbil couldn’t afford to pay the mortgage. Money wise they may inherit a substantial amount if it was sold and divided up between them. But everything I’ve read says that if there is a lifetime trust the surviving spouse can sell the property but the beneficiaries amount is kept aside until the surviving spouse dies before they would inherit.

I think by her sending the letter she is fulfilling her legal obligations to keep them informed of what is going on, without actually having to speak to anyone.

OP posts:
Original poster
Linnet · 10/09/2022 23:47

shandon14 · 10/09/2022 23:05

I had to call Land Registry recently about a charge on my property, this charge alerts me if anyone tries to sell the property. I can't tell you how helpful Land Registry were in working through a few things with me. It's worth giving them a call to see if you could have a similar charge so that any attempt to convey the property could be flagged to your DH.

I’m not sure if they could do that since the only names on the land registry are FIL and his wife. I believe that dh and dbil names wouldn’t be added to the land registry until after the surviving spouse died.

OP posts:
Seemslikeaniceday · 11/09/2022 01:07

Linnet · 10/09/2022 23:47

I’m not sure if they could do that since the only names on the land registry are FIL and his wife. I believe that dh and dbil names wouldn’t be added to the land registry until after the surviving spouse died.

Show quote history

You can definitely do this for free. Land Registry have a fraud prevention service called property alert. www.gov.uk/guidance/property-alert

Seemslikeaniceday · 11/09/2022 01:10

OP if your FIL has plenty of money why were mortgages taken out on two properties? As a pp said make an appointment with a solicitor. I would consider one near where your FIL lived, they know the local area which can be useful when you are miles away) and use Zoom etc. to meet.

urbanbuddha · 11/09/2022 02:06

This website has information on English wills.
It includes guidance on disputing an estate and what it calls contentious probate
www.nationalwillregister.co.uk/
I think you're going to need an English solicitor.

urbanbuddha · 11/09/2022 02:08

www.nationalwillregister.co.uk/find-a-contentious-probate-solicitor/
Sorry, this is the second link.

deeperthanallroses · 11/09/2022 02:18

Find an English property solicitor - they would do meets via zoom /google meet! You don’t need to hope someone in a local town knows English law.

prh47bridge · 11/09/2022 09:25

I’d have thought seeing as she only owns 50% of the property she wouldn’t be able to sell it without consulting them in some way. In the same way that FIL couldn’t leave the entire property to them as he only owned half.

She can't - at least, not legally.

The wording of the wife's letter is unclear. One possible reading is that she intends to sell the house, pay off the mortgage and keep the proceeds for herself. If that is what she intends, she cannot do that. Your husband and his brother are each entitled to 25% of the proceeds after the mortgage has been paid.

As others have said, your husband and his brother need to consult a solicitor.

Original poster
Linnet · 11/09/2022 13:01

Seemslikeaniceday · 11/09/2022 01:07

You can definitely do this for free. Land Registry have a fraud prevention service called property alert. www.gov.uk/guidance/property-alert

Show quote history

I’ll have a look at this later today.

OP posts:
Original poster
Linnet · 11/09/2022 13:18

prh47bridge · 11/09/2022 09:25

I’d have thought seeing as she only owns 50% of the property she wouldn’t be able to sell it without consulting them in some way. In the same way that FIL couldn’t leave the entire property to them as he only owned half.

She can't - at least, not legally.

The wording of the wife's letter is unclear. One possible reading is that she intends to sell the house, pay off the mortgage and keep the proceeds for herself. If that is what she intends, she cannot do that. Your husband and his brother are each entitled to 25% of the proceeds after the mortgage has been paid.

As others have said, your husband and his brother need to consult a solicitor.

I agree that the wording reads like she could sell the property, pay off the mortgage and then keep what’s leftover for herself. It could be that’s not what she means at all but we have no way to contact her to ask so we’ll need to see a solicitor and see if they can contact her.

Our worry is that if a solicitor sends her a letter she might refuse to accept it plus we don’t even know if she is living in the place where they stayed. If she’s not and we don’t have a solicitor to contact I’m not sure what will happen if we can’t reach her.

It’s all just such a mess. We will get legal advice asap.

OP posts:
Original poster
Linnet · 11/09/2022 16:37

Does anyone know if I have legal cover on my home insurance can I use that to pay for a solicitor?

OP posts:
Seemslikeaniceday · 11/09/2022 17:27

It will be part of the T&Cs but yes you may be able to use it for a solicitor. It’s certainly worth a phone call.

However to be technical it should be your husband making the claim.

Original poster
Linnet · 11/09/2022 17:34

I think the legal cover covers everyone in the household. I'll look into it just incase. It would be good as I have no idea how we'll afford a solicitor.

OP posts:
Mindymomo · 11/09/2022 17:48

I would firstly contact the Solicitor who originally wrote to your DH, as he may have organised the Will.

NoSquirrels · 11/09/2022 17:59

FIL was a wealthy man

And yet there were 2 charges taken out in properties less than 5 years ago, and your ex MIL is now needing to sell as she cannot afford the mortgage debt on the property… I think you should prepare yourselves for the possibility that there is in fact not a substantial amount to inherit after all.