Can I return this pram for a full refund?

[Curiosity101]

I bought a new stroller online. A Bugaboo Butterfly cause we wanted something lightweight that folds down small rather than our huge travel system.

Did loads of research, we only intended to use it to and from the childminders (0.8 miles each way on pavements) and on days out to places with good paths. Seemed well built and perfect for our needs.

The pram arrives, I unbox it and it seems alright. Quite difficult to put up compared to all these people popping it up one handed on the videos. And the release buttons are quite sticky/stiff. But fine, figured that was just that I needed to learn the knack of it. Then we take it for it's first trip out. It almost tips over sideways several times. Turns out it's centre of gravity it quite high and it really wants to tip sideways on anything other than perfectly even ground once it's got 11.5kg of baby in it.

Nevermind. I'll return it for a full refund. It looked perfect but it isn't suitable for our needs. I packaged it back into its box and sent it back, it was collected maybe 3 days after we received it.

We've received an email stating it has signs of wear so they can't accept it back and will be returning it to us without refund. They're not wrong in the sense that it has been used once. Just long enough to realise it wasn't fit for purpose for us. I've attached the picture they sent.

I didn't think we actually needed a reason to return under distance selling? In hindsight if I'd have known I'd have given the wheels a quick wipe with a cloth as it's genuinely just surface dust from the 1.6mile round trip on dry pavement.

Have I misunderstood or are they trying to wiggle out of their responsibility to refund?

If the basket is underneath putting a heavy bag in it should lower the centre of gravity. These prams do have to pass standards, so unless it has something wrong with it that is a manufacturing fault you're highly unlikely to get a refund because of tipping on uneven ground. If it's rare like a PP said you might be able to get most of your money back from selling it.

We're holding the handle so it hasn't literally fallen over. There were a number of time where it went up onto 2 wheels or where we had to grab it tightly with both hands and counter balance to stop it tipping sideways.

Having done that walk twice a day 5 days a week with our old pushchair we've never had this issue.

I can't imagine having to put that much effort into keeping the pram vertical will do mine or DHs back or shoulders any good long term.

As PPs have said, it's potentially not a faulty pushchair. But I'd assumed that would be good enough reason for them to accept the return (even though I was obviously wrong about distance selling).

That does sound faulty to me. I've had an Uppababy and a Baby Jogger City Mini GT and neither ever felt like they were tipping over. Even with thrashing babies or toddlers and even on uneven ground.

You should have used it around the front room first. Sell it on ebay

Doing that would not have uncovered the problem.

That's obviously a completely different situation, clearly you think the OP is a bad person so you're just throwing things at them.

This product isn't fit for the purpose it is built for - of course, you'll have to use it to know this and come to this conclusion. If anything else, it is also a health and safety issue. I'd officially warn the seller I'd hold them responsible if any harm should come to my child or any users or passersby due to the product tipping over or collapsing. If I was the seller, I'd issue a full refund double quick!

But only the OP appears to have had the issue? i think yoU may be talking out your hat

What makes you so cock sure only the OP has the problem? Are you the manufacturer? Have you a similar one that you've used before? Point out one instance in my post that doesn't make sense to you or maybe your intelligence doesn't extend that far?

The multiple excellent reviews would seem to suggest the issue isn’t widespread.

But do calm down.

Do people really say ‘unbox’?

This is such a salty reply for a discussion about a pram 🤣

IME the light weight buggies are much more prone to this than the big travel systems - I can push my uppababy vista one handed just about anywhere, but my little baby jogger lightweight stroller (can't remember the model but they don't make it any more anyway) is prone to this going over tree roots or across the entrance to heavily sloping driveways etc. Losing that weight comes at a cost, so they do feel more flimsy.

I'd sell it on and get a baby jogger city mini or an out and about.

I have this buggy - it’s a little lightweight model that you can push down the aisle of a plane and stow in the overhead locker.

It’s not really for rough terrain/everyday use or hanging bags from. That’s the issue with buying things online - a store member in John Lewis etc would have explained this at point of sale.

If you're on uneven ground with odd angles and tree roots, you need one with bigger wheels. The Fox or the Cameleon would be better if you want to stick with Bugaboo.

Get what you can for that one (or keep it for flights?) and get the next one from a proper shop.

Thanks for the additional thoughts.

It felt fine in my living room - If I had bought this from a shop after testing it in the showroom I still think I'd have bought it, tried it for the first real trip out of the house and then tried to return it. My initial title is misleading in that respect. I assumed we could return it under distance selling, which I'd obviously completely misunderstood. But the only reason I returned it at all was that I saw the tipping problem as an unreasonable issue for what I'd class as reasonable use. So whilst I assumed I'd be able to return it cause of what I saw as a real issue, I didn't expect to be challenged on it by the company because of my misunderstanding about distance selling.

And for those that are more interested in the specific pram model, Bugaboo Butterly. Based on the numerous reviews I watched and the fact it cost £395 from a brand like Bugaboo I expected it would be robust enough for day-to-day use on what I considered pretty easy-going standard concreted paths. I expected it would be entirely unsuitable for anything other than a concreted pathway and wouldn't be able to handle kerbs etc without being bumped up. I was perfectly happy that it would be too lightweight to have bags on the handle. But I never thought for one second that it would be prone to tipping sideways under what I'd class as pretty standard use. It's also advertised as being able to take a car seat, would that potentially raise its centre of gravity higher and make it riskier? I'm not sure.

The pushchair was only released in June this year, so I believe it's possible that it could be a bad design that is prone to tipping and hasn't been widely purchased enough for it to have been reported. But who knows? The seat definitely seems to sit a little higher than other similar style models and also sits more upright. Those were both features that I liked about the stroller as others always seemed to have seats low to the ground and slouchy in comparison (although I'm thinking I know why they're designed that way now).

If you only used this in a flat concreted area; for example flat city centres, public transport and airports then you'd likely never have this issue. Likewise, if you just tested it out at home and/or with a lighter (and less wriggly) child. But personally, I wouldn't pay £395 for a stroller I'd use a maximum of once a year.

The fact is they cannot now sell this as a new product to another customer. Why should they lose out financially ather than you?

You should have gone into a store and tested a few before making the purchase.

This seems crazy, so you can wheel it down the aisle of the plane, but can't really use it when you get to your destination for everyday activities? So it is literally just for airport use? Sounds pretty useless then.

Yes, it’s basically a holiday buggy, it was made quite clear when we bought it. Most brands have a version of the same. You can use it fine in your destination, mine has never tipped over. It’s small with small wheels however, so as PP have said, it doesn’t deal with rocky terrain, and wouldn’t deal with pavements lifted by trees very well, but then neither did the Maclaren I used for DC1 as a travel stroller either.

@LimboLass I don't think the retailer should lose out. I think it should go back to Bugaboo and they should handle it. That's what the retailer also suggested so they're exploring that option too.

@JasmineIndigo I think it depends on your holiday doesn't it. If you're going to lots of bumpy cobbled streets like in Italy or somewhere then it's not suitable, if you're going to Disney World in Florida then it couldn't be more perfect.

Unless the stroller is faulty in which case your should get a full refund, then it’s just the wrong stroller for you. Ultra compact strollers are extremely small and light and the trade off for that is that their terrain capability is significantly worse than full size strollers. I watch the Stroller Workshop YouTube channel (which is the best review channel for pushchairs, as he’s independent and not trying to sell the product he’s reviewing) and they rate the Butterfly highly, but their buyer’s guide says that it’s only suitable for smooth pavements and indoor surfaces, and can only handle occasional use on rougher surfaces and that it will be unpleasant to push on that. Without knowing the surface it’s hard to say if the handling is unreasonable there or not though.

Bugaboo have a four year warranty for the Butterfly, so might be worth getting in touch with them for a repair if appropriate, but unless they choose to refund you as a good will gesture, you aren’t entitled to a full refund for unwittingly choosing the wrong product for your lifestyle. I imagine the Butterfly would sell for a reasonable amount on the second hand market - Bugaboo are a well known brand and the Butterfly was much anticipated and has great reviews so is an attractive stroller.

@toastofthetown Funny you mention the Stroller Workshop YouTube channel, they were one of the reviews that most influenced me to purchase it. "Cobblestones, gravel or really broken sidewalks will be a struggle" - no problems, our route isn't like that "Given the strength of the chassis I would say that if you live in a fairly smooth urban or suburban environment this is one of those few ultra compacts capable of being used all day everyday as your primary stroller". I thought "Great, sound's exactly like how we'd use it".

I would've described our walk as smooth pavements. They're not textured or gravelly or anything like that. Smooth but uneven is how I'd describe them, so it honestly did seem like the perfect option. It's not even necessarily that the wheels are too small or the chassis too light. It really does come down to it's centre of gravity being too high for pushing along anything other than pretty much perfectly flat ground. If the wheels were wider or the seat unit lower and more reclined I think it would make a large difference to it's overall handling and make it much harder to tip sideways. Having said that, despite hours of research I've never once heard anyone mention tipping sideways for any of the pushchairs I've been researching, and it's never been an issue with my previous pushchair in the 2 years it's been doing the run too and from the childminders - so it literally never occurred to me until it happened. Then I thought nothing more of it until it happened again a few minutes later. Then I gave it to my husband to push cause I was thinking I must be doing something weird.

I'm really just hoping that Bugaboo agree that our usage would be classed as reasonable, and that it's not reasonable that it should be so easy to tip. But we'll see what they say and take it from there.

How about you doing the walk with another adult with a camera videoing it and another adult to the side just in case it does tip. Then upload the video to YouTube, set it to private and send the link to the retailer to help them make their decision about whether the terrain you're trying to use it on is unreasonable for the pram?

I did videos of me putting my daughter in her car seat and the straps instantly twisting. The retailer went from 'it's an occasional problem here's our advice on how to twist it back' (thus proving to me it was a common problem or why would they have made a video to show people how to twist back??) Then when they saw my repeated videos of trying to strap her in I got a full refund. Similarly with faulty heater that wouldn't switch off (it takes a while to cool down apparently) and I showed it turned completely off and yet continuing to blow! Swapped for a new one without the problem.

@Cherms That's great advice and pretty much exactly my plan if they don't have any luck direct with bugaboo.

I can totally see what everyone is saying above. It does have fantastic reviews and this may not be a common problem. But that doesn't necessarily mean that what I'm doing is definitely unreasonable. One of my bug bears with the research I did was that very few people said 'I've used this for a few trips now and it's great' - They were almost exclusively in a show room or living room and didn't even include pushing a child around. Or written reviews were directly after unboxing rather than after a couple of weeks of use.

Hi OP, was wondering what ended up happening with this? I’ve been thinking about buying the Butterfly but I’ve seen a handful of bad feedback reviews online about it tipping on any hill or incline surface, and when we tested it in the baby store the other day even going to around the aisles it did tend to do it a little as well. Such a shame as it’s otherwise a great looking stroller!