Mortgaged property adjoined unsafely to next door

[Crabjuice]

We bought our house in February 2019 and had a 25% deposit, the rest was mortgaged. We undertook the basic mortgage survey. We have some out buildings attached to our house in a temporary looking structure but physically accessed through the house.. they look like sheds from outside but can walk through to the kitchen. They were marked on the survey as outbuildings. They run the whole length of the house and adjoin us to next doors property who have a similar structure. The houses are semi detached but this joins us to another semi detached on the ground floor level only. Hope this makes sense, I can provide a diagram if not.

The roof is leaking and we want to have some work done to fix this. We have had builders round who have said it is a fire hazard as we are joined to next door in a bizarre unsafe way. Next door could climb into the roof of the structure and drop through our roof if they wanted as it is unsafe and flimsy work. Our builder suggested our mortgage survey was not conducted properly as it should have deemed this unmortgageable as the outhouses are connected to the main house in an unsafe way. We are shocked as we did not realise the extent of this. We want to make our house secure and are pricing this up. But I am wondering if anyone has experience of this and whether we should seek legal advice? We are aware that we did not take the home buyers survey but we did not realise the structure of the house was so flimsy between the buildings and that it compromised our house so much in terms of fire safety. We also don't know the implications of sharing a flimsy structured building adjoined to our neighbours similar structure and whether we can tear this down if needed without their permission, in order to make our house safe. Any thoughts or where we should start to unpick this? Obviously there is no planning permission which was not flagged to us at any stage of the process

So it’s link detached?
Basic mortgage survey-do you mean just the mortgage valuation or you paid for a level 1 survey?
www.nationwide.co.uk/mortgages/mortgage-valuation-and-home-surveys/

How old is the outbuilding structure and was it built the same time as the house?

It sounds as if your outbuilding has no fire physical stop and that both buildings (yours & NDN) were built as one unit with a common roof.
Eg the 2 roofs are an triangle / A shape where the " -- " is your ceiling?
And the wall dividing the 2 properties stops below this rather than being built up to the peek?

www.labc.co.uk/news/how-get-it-right-fire-stopping-new-homes

If that is the case you are damaging the NDN's property if you attempt to take the roof off as their 'attic' space would be exposed to the elements
You will need to look at the legislation around party walls.
www.gov.uk/government/publications/preventing-and-resolving-disputes-in-relation-to-party-walls/the-party-wall-etc-act-1996-explanatory-booklet#part-1-party-wall-etc-act-1996

And if the builder has not already checked you need to look in your attic space of main building too

So it’s the roofs of the outbuildings that are linked? If it’s gaps in the party wall then that’s quite common in terraced houses of a certain age. My old one was, it was brought up on the survey but only a level 3 one when they looked thoroughly in the roof space.

Sorry for late reply. Please see attached image if it hopefully works. So the pink lines show our houses, two different sets of semi detached. The cross hatched part is the outbuildings that run the full length of our house and then join into a joint garage at the back. Most houses on our street have a joint garage - building joint but separately accessed. This structure goes the full length. House was built in the 70s and the structure maybe about 10 years ago from what we can gather and was built by both owners at the time (poor quality and structurely unsafe) we use ours mainly as storage but it has started to leak into the main house - see purple line which is why we got a builder to try and fix the roof but to also make the structure into a more livable area like a utility room/toilet/storage etc. The builder has said he has never seen anything like it and has brought other colleagues for second, third opinions etc. As far as we know there is no party wall agreement, no planning permission and the purple line shows all the flimsy/unsafe walls and structure. We need to pay to correct this but wondering where to start. The builder seems to think our surveyor should have flagged this up when we bought - it was a mortgage valuation survey we took out but I am checking this today and will post the details. I know we took the lowest level survey out but the builder seems to think we may have a case to raise with surveyor as it is so structurally ridiculous but we aren't sure. Thanks for the replies and hopefully I have answered some of the questions.

The cross hatched part is all single floor level but with a roof space above. We can't get into the roof area here without tearing down an extremely flimsy piece of plastic. The builder also went into next door and could see that they could access above our side and get in the roof quite easily, which he looked at. And they have also built a kitchen area in their part which is more of a fire risk. I can hear them talking when stood in my section as clear as if they are next to me, and can also smell smoking through the room occasionally which is awful but also highlights how unstructurally sound it is. Any advice welcome, thanks for reading

It was a mortgage valuation survey we undertook and this is a screenshot from it

I'm not sure I fully understand. Is the issue that the extensions are not fully separated vertically because the loft space is not separated? If so, it is correct that nowadays you would expect to have a full separation between the two, capable of acting as a fire break but the builder can surely just construct a wall between the two houses within the loft space? May have to access it by taking part of the ceiling down I agree but I would not have thought this is a huge job.

As a PP said, having your loft open to next doors is not uncommon, especially in terraces which is why I am wondering if this is something more?

I’d imagine you don’t have a leg to stand on as the mortgage valuation survey is essentially checking that the house exists-they are not looking at the structural make up.

Have you discussed the builder's opinion with your neighbour?

Hi

Thanks so much for taking the time to reply. To be clear, the builder is discussing this with building regulators (unsure of official title, he is coming back to us next week) as he doesn't want to build against unsafe structures, he has shared this with the neighbour. The wall between both of us is built from a couple of layers of plasterboard pretty much, no brick structure or any sort of foundations at all. And this is not a separate part of either house, the 'extended part' attachs both main parts of the house together if that makes sense? If they were true outbuildings that were standalone, it wouldn't be as bad, but currently they compromise both main houses. Is this different to terrace houses where they connect? Possibly not I suppose? But it feels unsafe as it's on the ground floor and with little force, someone could kick down a wall from next door and be in our kitchen. Or a fire could rip through both our houses.

We want to fix the roof as it is is leaking and we also want to make the 'extended part' so we are secure and safe but to do this, it may mean we will have to build further back. We don't know the implications of whether we have a responsibility to support next doors dodgy structure and lose a foot or so on our property by moving back.

We aren't looking for blame, we want to fix and resolve this but it's difficult as we are connected to next doors unsafe structure. Our builder was the one who suggested we explore whether the fault is with the surveyor. We will look into party wall advice a bit further. We have had a few builders look at this and they don't want to touch building on this area as the core conjoining part is so structural unsafe and like I say, practically plasterboard.

Sorry if I'm not using correct terminology but will read through the replies and investigate further.

Survey: Under the section Alterations it says N, from what you have said this is not correct as the outbuildings/sheds are quite a significant structure. However, as you only had a mortgage valuation survey it could be argued the main house was sufficient for the mortgage. You would need a RICS surveyor to look at the outbuildings and survey to see if it was accurate. This will cost.

Conveyancing Solicitor: Were they aware of this structure? If so they should have checked it had been constructed properly with relevant documentation. Describing them as outbuildings may have given a false impression of the nature of the buildings.

Security: Can your home be accessed directly from the outbuildings, I.e. can you walk from the outbuilding to your kitchen without going through a lockable door? If you can, look at putting a fireproof lockable door on your kitchen asap.

Honestly from what you have said I cannot see how this structure can remain or be made safe and secure and compliant with building regs etc. Don’t be surprised if you and your neighbour are told to remove it.

It’s a joint issue and you and your neighbours are going to have to work together to resolve this. You are probably going to need legal advice ( do you have cover on home insurance?) and you may need to involve a professional mediator as your neighbours may consider you have opened the can of worms by asking builders to look at the structure and they are now discussing with building regulators.

Thanks so much for replying, I really appreciate it. We will explore with a RICS surveyor.

The conveyancing solicitor should have been aware as far as we know, but we will explore further.

Security, we don't have a fire door in between the structure and the main house. There isn't a lockable door although we have temporarily put one there for now. We didn't realise things were so unsafe.

It wouldnt be the worst news for us if this is torn down to be honest, I don't like the space and it leaks into our main house. We are trying to fix what is there at the moment in the safest and best way.

We have good neighbourly relations so far and have been honest with our intentions and that this is fixed. Its a difficult situation. I appreciate your comments and advice, thanks so much.

If the deeds show these buildings as outbuildings why would a conveyancer know any different?

You are at fault for not getting a full survey. You probably know this and it’s come back to bite you.

For what it’s worth, I would rebuild it. You have an unsafe structure but you would get pp and satisfy building regs. It would be safe. You need advice on how to rebuild as it’s attached to next door but it seems like throwing good money after bad to do anything else. But get proper advice! Not a builder. You cannot do this on the cheap!

In view of your update I would save money chasing who, if anyone, should have picked this up and spend it on having it removed and replaced with a proper extension.

Op have you even bothered to speak to your neighbours yet and inform them of the builders comments?

Hi

Thanks for your message. We are happy to rebuild and that's what we got the builder in to do, we want to correct this and aren't looking for blame. The builder suggested the surveyor may be at fault and that is why I posted. We have the money to correct this but want to do this in the best way. I suppose the reason I posted was ro get signposted where to seek advice from, our builder has said one thing and we trust him but we want to know who can support us with this and if anyone has come across this before

Thank you for commenting, of course we have bothered. The man has inherited this from his parents. We will keep them involved in our conversations. I am asking for support who can help. I probably worded the op wrong. We don't want to blame, we want a safe house and to resolve this.

Thanks very much. We think this is the best option also. Just exploring what our builder suggested while we are thinking everything through.

@Crabjuice
As you seem to have paid for a valuation and not a full survey, the issue with the property is down to you. I would either engage a building surveyor or an architect who understands the issues to draw up plans for you. You will need to issue a party wall agreement to your neighbour and discuss how your works will affect them. Will their building be sound? How are walls, foundations and roofs to be designed? It’s quite complex and the builder needs accurate drawings and design to ensure it’s building reg compliant snd endures your neighbours’ building is safely maintained.

Not getting a survey is your problem here.
You say that there was no planning permission either.
It sort of sounds like the owners of your's and their's at one point decided to jointly build a make shift extension.
Your garages are set back. If the outbuildings weren't there , would you have your own direct access to your garage or is it a shared driveway?

I agree you need to engage an architect too. This is going to be an extension and not just a repair job. The architect will draw up plans for the planning permission and then liaise with a structural engineer for the building regulations plan. Sounds like your neighbour is aware and not being awkward, so it should not be too big a problem with the rebuild, except for the £££.

The build will build off the plans drawn up and approved by building regulations of the council. Hope that make sense.

@Anita29

You have posted this in the middle of a different thread

You can start your own by pressing the Legal header at the top of this thread to bring you to the topic list the option " + Add a thread " should appear.

Would it have retrospective planning due to the length of time theyve been there?

It would not have qualify for planning as it was not built to the regs.

The best the OP could hope for is that the building has been in place for so long that enforcement is not possible.

However council could in theory inspect the
building and class it as a dangerous structure.