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Original poster

Is this a fair settlement?

34 replies

accidentalteacher · 19/08/2022 13:09

accidentalteacher · Today 12:51
Hi, new poster here!

I have read this thread with interest, as my son is in a similar position and I am panicking like mad!

His live-in girlfriend has just left him. It is his house, but she put in £46,000 to pay off a small mortgage when she moved in, with the verbal agreement that if they split up, he would return that plus some interest. I told them several times they should sign a Declaration of Trust, but they did not, and there is nothing in writing.

My son is disabled with very limited income. Prior to her moving in, the house was rented out and he lived at home. The arrangement was that she would pay the majority of the bills; she was quite happy with the arrangement. She has not asked for the money back yet knew the score when she moved in. She's a lovely girl and I thought they were solid and have no intention of welching on the deal. I intend to give her £51,000, which is the full extent of our 'spare' money. We still have a big mortgage and other children at home.

I hope she will be reasonable and accept this in full and final settlement. They lived together for less than 3 years. Do you think this is reasonable?

Thanks
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Milly0h · Today 12:56
Hi accindetalteacher, I suggest starting your own thread as you will receive more responses. But I think that what you are offering is more than fair. She was a bit reckless getting nothing in writing. I assume her name is not on the deeds?
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accidentalteacher · Today 13:05
No, her name is not on the deeds and there is nothing in writing. As my query is pretty much the same as Toadcatcher's (without the abuse), I was just looking for some independent confirmation that this is a fair offer and that unless she takes him to court, she is best just to accept what is offered. I think she thought it was forever, but Covid lockdown affected her quite badly and his increasing immobility just made it worse.

He is due quite a big op next month, which should substantially improve his mobility, and after a few months recuperation should be able to earn more and generally be a bit more fun.

I think that any court would view any demand for any more, given that he was disabled when she met him, he has deteriorated over the last couple of years and is about to have a serious operation as quite unreasonable.

Just seeking confirmation from anyone who knows that this is likely to be the case.

Thanks

OP posts:
Original poster
accidentalteacher · 19/08/2022 13:20

For sure, if she had left the £46,000 in the building society, she certainly wouldn't have made £5,000 interest in less than three years.

OP posts:
TizerorFizz · 19/08/2022 22:31

The interest is generous. She should take it.

She was, however, a complete idiot to pay off a mortgage on a house she didn’t own. Assuming I understand this correctly! Why did your DS think this was ok snd you? It’s his house isn’t it? But took money from his girlfriend to pay off his mortgage? I would not see that as fair. And she paid most of the bills!!! I think you do need to compensate her. Being disabled didn’t mean his girlfriend should be used to pay off his mortgage!’

Original poster
accidentalteacher · 20/08/2022 07:17

She was the driving force. I absolutely intend to compensate her. It was an investment on her part and if she receives it back with interest, she has not lost out. I certainly don't want her to lose out and they were both very certain at the outset and, in fact, until a few weeks ago that it was a permanent arrangement.

OP posts:
Whatiswrongwithmyknee · 20/08/2022 07:49

I think you should look at how much 46K in a house will have appreciated in 3 years and give her that. Likely to be more than 51K I think. You had a mortgage before (or son did) so easily solved by getting a new one and paying her with that, no?

Original poster
accidentalteacher · 20/08/2022 08:00

I think you are probably right.

OP posts:
TizerorFizz · 20/08/2022 09:22

@accidentalteacher
How could it possibility have been an investment if it’s your son’s house. Was the ownership amended? Has she got a share of it? If you think she deserves a share, in proportion to what she put in, then the house needs valuing. So if it was £200,000 snd it’s now £300,000 her contribution would be a higher amount than you think. Of course if there is hardly any increase then it wasn’t much of an investment. I would remortgage. The cost of that now will be more though. DDs just come to the end of a fixed term mortgage and it’s a lot more per month then before.

Endlesslypatient82 · 20/08/2022 09:23

I very very much hope this girl seeks legal advice before accepting your offer.

Endlesslypatient82 · 20/08/2022 09:24

And if you genuinely had her interests in mind Op, you would actively encourage her to too

ClocksGoingBackwards · 20/08/2022 09:31

If she put in £46k then giving her back £51k is more than fair to her.

She might have been paying all the bills, but they were her bills too, she benefitted from that water and electricity etc and she was in a relationship with your son while she was doing it. It’s perfectly normal for a higher earner in a relationship to pay more for utilities if they can afford more.

OP, don’t be swayed by the MN double standards just because your son is make and the money came from a female. Responses on here are often very different depending on the sex of the people involved.

How much would rent in a similar sized house cost her for the nearly three years that she lived there? I think your offer is fair OP, but remember that if you give her that, she’s effectively had free rent for the whole time she was living in your sons house. She will be fine.

Original poster
accidentalteacher · 20/08/2022 09:35

The house next door is exactly the same and is presently being rented for £1,400 pm.

OP posts:
fufflecake · 20/08/2022 09:38

I would present this offer. If I were her I would take it.

fufflecake · 20/08/2022 09:39

I would have bought parties sign something so she can't ask for more at a later date

TizerorFizz · 20/08/2022 12:11

Whatever difference does rent make on a similar property. I actually think your DS has taken advantage of her. He’s not able to pay his way it would seem and she took on everything for him and it wasn’t an investment for her. She probably should accept the money but I’d there any uplift in house prices? Would she have been better off if she had a % of the house she paid for? Is that really just £5000 after 3 years? Probably not. But you need to do the sums. I think she’s been taken advantage of. I would say the same if it was thd other way round.

BoredOfGrey22 · 20/08/2022 12:17

What % of the house value was her £46k when she invested?

If the house was worth £100,000, she paid £46k, so she 'owns' 46% of the house. (I know she doesn't legally own it, but morally that would be right).

If the house is now worth £200,000 then her 46% is worth £92k.

I'd go off the house value and look at Her %

That's what a Legal agreement should have stated.

If the house value hadn't increased then just give her the original money back plus split the difference in rental income you have both saved (her the rent, you the mortgage payments).

Original poster
accidentalteacher · 20/08/2022 12:25

It was worth about £330,000 at the time. It is worth about £380,000 now. About 14%. So in reality, I think she is owed about £55,000.

OP posts:
goshy · 20/08/2022 12:33

I think you should look at how much 46K in a house will have appreciated in 3 years and give her that. Likely to be more than 51K I think

agree with this

Original poster
accidentalteacher · 20/08/2022 12:33

£330,000 was the Zoopla house price estimate at the time: £380,000 is a current estate agent's valuation.

OP posts:
TizerorFizz · 20/08/2022 14:06

@accidentalteacher
I think the valuation gives a better steer.

JennyMule · 20/08/2022 16:17

I am not clear why you would be paying your son's ex partner anything, OP? She's likely acquired a beneficial interest in your son's property. Assuming that she seeks ££ to compensate then I'd suggest you leave your adult son to negotiate and resolve (eg take out a new mortgage as suggested by PP.)

ClocksGoingBackwards · 20/08/2022 16:45

A valuation is irrelevant. She didn’t take the risk of a mortgage, maybe she wouldn’t have got one for some reason, and her name never went on the deeds.

She put in cash and she will get back cash. It makes no difference what her boyfriend used it for except that she got the benefit of living in his house rent free.

Classicblunder · 20/08/2022 16:52

How long ago was the original agreement made? If it was in the last few years, I think she has made a good return on her investment and she also got the benefit of living rent free.

If it was 20 years ago, there would be more sense in looking at the valuations and thinking of it that way.

Johnnysgirl · 20/08/2022 16:52

JennyMule · 20/08/2022 16:17

I am not clear why you would be paying your son's ex partner anything, OP? She's likely acquired a beneficial interest in your son's property. Assuming that she seeks ££ to compensate then I'd suggest you leave your adult son to negotiate and resolve (eg take out a new mortgage as suggested by PP.)

Agree.

ILoveYoga · 20/08/2022 16:52

You should think I about taking some advice about this. It may be another option to give your don the money, he then pays her back and has some type of documentation signed that it is a return of the money she previously loaned him. Then you have done sort of arrangement with your regarding the money you give him (ie, never claim it, forgive the loan) and a charge placed on the home. Whether you intend the money to be a gift, at least if the girlfriend tries to come back for more, the total value of the home will have been reduced.

but do take some advice to secure your son’s interest.

also, don’t forget, the girlfriend lived there for 3 years. She would have had to is your rent, bills, council taxes etc wherever she lived so your calculations seem fair

Classicblunder · 20/08/2022 16:53

Sorry, just seen you did say less than 3 years. I would be very happy with this offer if I were her. She isn't likely to do better in court once legal fees are accounted for.

Johnnysgirl · 20/08/2022 16:57

Classicblunder · 20/08/2022 16:53

Sorry, just seen you did say less than 3 years. I would be very happy with this offer if I were her. She isn't likely to do better in court once legal fees are accounted for.

You can't possibly know that. She's acquired a beneficial interest, it's not for op to pin that down to a monetary value.