Benefit fraud

[Stressoutmum]

Hi. I’ve recently received a letter from fraud department that I need to trend an interview under caution as they suspect I failed to declare a partner. I do have a partner but he doesn’t live with me simply because I can’t afford him living here. He’s a student so all his student loans would be taken off my claim. So is it fraud that we’re a couple. I work and claim uc as a top up. He doesn’t give me money

[devonianBiatch]

@SuperTea

This makes me sad. Surely we should be glad the kids have two parents that spend some time with them together?!

My sister lives apart from her kids dad. She and their two kids live in a council house and he has a flat a few roads away. He works full time, still spends two evenings a week at her house and they often go out for days and occasionally even go on holiday together. Because both of her kids have serious additional needs and she literally can't go out with both of them unless either me or him are with her. They are really friendly now but she is most certainly is NOT in any sort of relationship with him.

It makes me really angry that so many people make snap judgements out of jealousy/spite and these reports can have real impacts on actual lives. Anne Frank wouldn't have lasted 5 minutes in modern day Britain.

[Stressoutmum]

i don’t feed him or anything 🤣 and I know that if he contributed I’d have to declare it so I’d rather stand on my own two feet until he can sort himself and is willing and able to help

[IfIhearmumagaintoday]

I would revaluate your circle OP including social media..

[Stressoutmum]

Yes. I know they can access my accounts but can they access his. Will be able prove none of his money goes to me.

[Raspberryjam22]

Is he your DC’s parent ? How many nights does he stay ? I am also ex DWP and have heard the “ but he only stays 3 nights a week” so many times . But if he is staying the majority of the week it sounds like someone has reported you .

[Minimalme]

Does he help you with childcare at all op?

That would be a financial benefit of being in a relationship as opposed to being a LP I guess.

[Raspberryjam22]

And remember that DWP look at Social Media .

[GrannyAchingsShepherdsHut]

@Eddiesferret woukd they be looking at whether the OP is benefiting from him doing free childcare? Like how you can't swop childcare with a friend without conforming to all sorts of rules and regs because it has a monetary value?

[Eddiesferret]

SuperTea it really IS all about the financial situation.
If you live as entirely separate entities. Pay your own household costs. Don't get help with the groceries, utilities, TV licence , council tax etc then you're a separate entity financially.

It's about fairness to those who are genuinely managing alone.

That said I think the appallingly low level of benefits is scandalous and far from adequate if people do play by the rules.

[Stressoutmum]

He is my youngest dad. We split in 2020 so I started my claim in the summer of 2020 we got back together start of 21. But by then I had got a job and was managing. He was getting about 3 grand every 3 months from student finance which he spent on bills and debt then travel to and from uni. He’s working now part time and uni is over so I was thinking won’t be long til can move in but now I dunno what to do.

[Eddiesferret]

No childcare doesn't get looked at. I guess because either the child's parent is doing it which he should do for a period of the week anyway... and childcare would normally be done for a period that the claimant was working. Which they would have declared anyway. If they haven't declared the work then that would be the offence not the childcare.
Someone without a partner could put a child in registered childcare and claim it back . If they were declaring work.

I think it's important to say here that the VAST majority of LPs claiming benefit are actually working. The days of people idling their lives away living on Benefits until the child was 16 (was like that when I started - what were we thinking ?) with a live in partner (undeclared) are a thing of the past.

[Eddiesferret]

@Stressoutmum

He is my youngest dad. We split in 2020 so I started my claim in the summer of 2020 we got back together start of 21. But by then I had got a job and was managing. He was getting about 3 grand every 3 months from student finance which he spent on bills and debt then travel to and from uni. He’s working now part time and uni is over so I was thinking won’t be long til can move in but now I dunno what to do.

Were the bills he paid yours ?

[oviraptor21]

Look at the way in which the DWP decide if you are living together as a married couple:

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/661551/adme4.pdf

[Stressoutmum]

No he has debts from before I knew him. I only have my Wi-Fi and electric I don’t have credit cards or loans or even a phone bill

[manysummersago]

@SuperTea

I had a case a few years ago where the partner literally paid for everything and the benefit money was the womens 'pocket money' . She was incandescent with rage because her boyfriend had another home where he paid his own council tax.. just would not have it that she was doing anything wrong. (Had three kids with the man between claiming and the court case !)

But if he'd paid that money as CMS that would be OK?

Indeed

[Minimalme]

I think you have been given great advice by @Eddiesferret

You should have a good think about whether this bloke is worth it op.

I can't believe he is a Dad and chose to move in with his Mum and become a student.

He should be working to support his child.

Even now his course is finished, he is only working part time. He is taking the absolute piss and I'm not surprised you have been reported.

[Crikeyalmighty]

Was he not paying you maintenance op for your youngest (as the child is his) when he was a student? Even a small amount? Because as others have said you might be ok as regards benefits investigation- but you might want to think twice about him as a partner- my son was paying £180 a month to his ex even when he wasn't earning much at all- if he was living at home and yet still had no money to give you- I would think twice about that

[Stressoutmum]

I totally get where your coming from. We have a great realationship but if he moved in it wouldn’t work because he honestly wouldn’t contribute. I know that a lot would think why you with him. Main answer. I’m stupid 😂

[lovesweetlovesweet]

@Eddiesferret

Ok. 33 years in Fraud so hope I can give you a reasonably clear answer on what they are looking for.

First of all I want to expel a myth. (Because it's used as a defence EVERY time) 'he doesn't live with me and only stays over x times a week'

There is NO specific amount of time if he has another home. This is ALL about lifestyle.
'Living together' is an offence . (Actually the offence is failure to notify a chance of circumstances, if you have got together since claiming to be single OR false representation if you were already in a relationship when you claimed)

Anyway.. it might help to understand WHY this is an offence.

If you claim as a single person it is assumed you have no additional income with which to run your household above that which you have declared for yourself. Every year the government legislates an amount of money the state should give you to help you support you and your family.
So for example . £500 rent (depends on area) £330 ish for you and £250 ish per child and then any money you earn is deducted after an allowable amount. (CMS is not counted) Out of that you are expected to run your entire household.

So compare yourself to say your neighbour who has no partner . Imagine you were in an exact same position. Both have 2 kids. Same rent. Same council tax. Same utility costs.

Now ask yourself . Does your partner contribute to your household ? Does he buy groceries for the family ? Does he pay the tv subscription? Does he pay car or travel costs for you ? As a very occasional thing (ie buys a takeaway at the weekends ) this wouldn't matter. However is it a regular thing.

Because it's obviously not fair if you have some or any of those things paid for you regularly when you neighbour in the same boat doesn't get that. It leaves you with more disposable income because you have a partner.

Now you can see what they are going to ask.

Unfortunately most living together allegations are made by friends family or neighbours because they feel it is unfair.

I had a case a few years ago where the partner literally paid for everything and the benefit money was the womens 'pocket money' . She was incandescent with rage because her boyfriend had another home where he paid his own council tax.. just would not have it that she was doing anything wrong. (Had three kids with the man between claiming and the court case !)

They will also ask about how others regard you. ie if neighbours/friends see you as a couple. In the case above it was the woman across the road who made the allegation although the convicted woman would never be privy to that information. (She was also a LP on benefits)

My advice would be to be honest and say if he makes regular contributions in any way. If he doesn't then say that. You can also ask for a publicly funded solicitor to attend with you if you wish.
Last but not least it is important to understand that 'under caution' includes your right to refuse to answer questions. However that normally means we have no other choice but to dig deeper. It is still your right though.

I hope that assists to put you in the picture ?

Surely they can look at phone records, credit card statements? Also if it's a criminal offence they can issue a warrant in the middle of the night to see if anyone is living there?

It can't be that hard to prove.

[dustandroses]

@lovesweetlovesweet it is hard to prove and the DWP don’t have the powers that police do. (yet) Also the standard of proof is probability unless a criminal fraud claim is processed.

DWP do not have the manpower to carry out full investigations on everyone and if a decision is made that they are living together the claimant can appeal. I have seen cases where a whole family is born to the same father over a decade and yet they never live as a couple, I’ve even reported one where they married and still claimed separately but no one investigated.

[LunaAndHerMoonDragons]

@Stressoutmum

Yes. I know they can access my accounts but can they access his. Will be able prove none of his money goes to me.

Mostly just bumping this post as I couldn't see an answer. If it would show the lack of financial contribution your partner could provide bank statements, I don't know if they could just access anyone's. Hopefully someone who knows the system will reply on this if it's a good idea or what powers they have.

[Eddiesferret]

Lunerandhermoondragons
The answer is both yes and no.

We absolutely cannot routinely look at your bank account. That would be very wrong and extremely intrusive without 'just cause'. It would require a production order and a very very strong evidential base .. for example , based on what has been uncovered in the course of the investigation to indicate that a production order was appropriate.
What is 'appropriate' is quite exhaustive however a big indicator would be a credit check linking both parties to the same address.

It is really important to understand the 'caution' when attending an interview under caution' :

The caution must be in the following terms: "You do not have to say anything. But it may harm your defence if you do not mention when questioned something which you later rely on in court. Anything you do say may be given in evidence.

It means if you lie. And it is found out. This will be used in court and is MUCH worse for the person being interviewed.
If you say nothing at the interview but come up with an excuse or mitigation later it could look a lot worse.

DWP would much rather not go to court . It's expensive and a pita.. but if the evidence indicates an offence then there is no choice. So in circumstances where you know you have cheated the system it is always better to be honest where your chances of getting a tap on the wrist and a chance to pay it back in instalments without a criminal record is always a much better outcome all round.

No. We can't get a warrant to go and knock someone up in the middle of the night. It would not be balanced or appropriate. As mentioned before. It's not about who you sleep with. It's about the financial relationship of being a couple . You could have a man round for a month who has nothing to do with your household. Never contributed a penny in anyway. Just a sex partner. Doesn't break the law. Thank goodness the state hasn't got to that level of intrusion.. (yet !)

[Anxious12]

Hi. Has anyone received a letter for Interview Under Caution pls? Although i haven't done anything wrong, i am so anxious abt the interview and have read they try to intimidate you and make you say stuff they want you too to prosecute you. Has anyone had this pls? Thanks x

[violetskypurple]

@Anxious12

Hi. Has anyone received a letter for Interview Under Caution pls? Although i haven't done anything wrong, i am so anxious abt the interview and have read they try to intimidate you and make you say stuff they want you too to prosecute you. Has anyone had this pls? Thanks x

This thread is from June 2022, I would try making your own thread you'll get more responses

[Anxious12]

Sorry I'm new on here and didn't know how? X