Taking a child abroad

[FrogPool]

A good friend has offered to take my DC 15 abroad on holiday this summer, with her DC and another friend. My DC has had no contact with his DF (who has parental responsibility) for almost four years, following his DF being arrested and convicted of internet child sex offences. He was given a suspended sentence. He subsequently reoffended and is serving a prison term, the maximum possible for this kind of offence. I have no idea which prison he is currently in and have no wish to know nor to have contact of any kind with him. My own job makes this a bad idea but, in any event, personally, I do not want to initiate contact of any kind and my DC does not want to either. How do I apply to the Court for permission for my DC to travel abroad with only my consent, instead of having the consent of both people with PR, how much does this cost and how long will it take? Is there any chance of a Court agreeing to terminate PR? Thank you.

Anyone?

Just write a letter with your contact details on and send a photocopy of the birth cert with them.
My mum has taken my dc on holiday many times without the father's permission and never had an issue. My dc also has a different surname to me and my mum. In fact they have only ever been asked to show the documents when re-entering the UK never on the way out.

Specific order issue via the family court at 15 you won't be forced into any contact and due to them being in prison they won't be an issue with permission

Children over 12 can fly alone anyway and whilst I understand where you are coming from a letter from you alone should suffice. If you went down the solicitor route tho there are certain types of consent orders which may be appropriate which cost a couple of hundred pounds but removing PR can be very costly - I was advised £20-40k by the solicitor I saw - things may be different with your ex being in prison. I would get a free hour with a solicitor as they will be best placed to comment on your individual circumstances.

I'm not an expert on this, but do you need to apply for formal permission?

I've never heard of anyone being challenged in an airport for this reason - despite it being regularly talked about anecdotally as a reason for mothers not to have different surnames to their children.

I actually travelled last month with my sister and niece - my niece has a different surname to her mother, and her father wasn't travelling with us. They didn't have any letter from him or court order to say he'd allowed them to travel 🤷🏻‍♀️ All they said was "who's 'Niece' travelling with?" And my sister said "me!"

You don't need to. You would only need permission if he was refusing, but he has no idea!

The govt website says permission is required from every person with PR... I've looked at a specific issue order but it says you have to do a MIAM or provide evidence as to why your circumstances should exempt you from doing one. I don't have any evidence!

I wonder would a sworn affidavit do as evidence that you are unable to provide parental permission from your dc df

My ds goes abroad several times a year with my dp since they were 8,they have never been asked, I write a letter everytime never been looked at. Your dc is 15, enjoy your holiday and stop worrying

Wrong. The law is that the OP's friend needs consent from everyone with PR in order to take the OP's son out of the country.

@prh47bridge yes, this is correct but how do I get round it legally, as I cannot have my son's life impacted any more than it already has been be his father's reprehensible behaviour. We cannot be the only ones in this position. What can I do to get a specific issue order without going through mediation. It would be wholly unreasonable to expect me to go into a prison and do mediation with this man.

You don't have to undertake mediation. You don't even have to attend an MIAM (Mediation, Information and Assessment Meeting). You are exempt because he is in prison.

Aprox £215 .. download c100 from HMCTS for a specific steps order.

From what you've said v straightforward and can self represent.

Do not listen to anecdotal stories about it being ok. It probably won't be but it's not legal. !!

Get the order and ask for it to be for future holidays and knock this issue on the head.

He is in prison there is your evidence 🤷‍♂️

@prh47bridge thank you. Please could you tell me where I can find details of the exemption from MIAM and mediation due to prison?

@prh47bridge it's ok, I have found the exemption details. What can I do about the fact that it says that the process takes 4-6 weeks to even get an initial hearing date? They are due to go away in August but everything needs to be booked and I can't risk losing a lot of money if it doesn't come through in time. Also, I've found information to say that the order will expire when he is 16, which is only a few months off. What happens after 16, as surely PR lasts until a child is 18? The info I've found also says that the Court would be reluctant to make an order for a child approaching the age of 16. Is this accurate? Can I request that the order extends until my son is 18?

Courts are reluctant to make some orders for children approaching the age of 16 because, by that age, the child is old enough to make their own decisions and the court would not want to force them to do something against their will. This is different. This is to allow your friend to take your son out of the country legally.

Once your son is 16, it will no longer be an offence to take him out of the country without the father's consent. In any event, a Specific Issue Order will only cover him for the specific holiday with your friend. If he is going to go on another holiday out of the country before he is 16, another order will be needed.

Given the limited time available, you can apply for an urgent hearing.

Many people take children out of the country illegally every year. Most do not encounter any problems. Given your son's age, there is a good chance your friend would not have any problems if she took your son without a court order. However, there is a chance that he would not be allowed to travel or that he would be refused entry at the destination, so it is best to get the court order if you can.

You have significant proof with regards this imprisonment.

Honestly, this is really only an issue if the other parent is going to cite that he's left without the permission. He won't have a clue of what's going on will he? I presume there's no contact with his family, locked down social media etc?

It’s not ‘wrong’. I wasn’t talking about the theoretically requirement but about the practice. Who is getting proactively stopped at passport control and asked for letters for any children accompanying them? It would only be a problem if the dad didn’t want it to happen.

How is that correct? Passport control won't have any clue whether the father objects or not. They could just see a child travelling with someone who isn't his parent / has a different name from the accompanying adult and request to see permission from all parties with PR. It may be unlikely but I don't want to risk it for my son, or indeed the others travelling with him.

Also @prh47bridge wrt to the MIAM exemption , do I not need some kind of evidence he is in prison or can I just state it and they will follow up?

I just say that I don't know where he is and we haven't seen him since my son was 2, which is true. We've never been asked for a letter. Are you sure you're not looking at rules for moving abroad rather than holidays?

it also depends where you are going.

if, say, the netherlands you are almost certain to be asked.

It is wrong. Whilst many people break the law on this every year and get away with it, every year some people miss out on their holiday because they are refused boarding at the airport or refused entry at their destination. People are proactively stopped and checked. The fact that most people aren't does not mean it doesn't happen.

No, she is looking at the rules for holidays. Unless you have a Child Arrangements Order saying that the child lives with you, it is a criminal offence to take a child under 16 out of the country for any reason unless you have either the consent of everyone with PR or an appropriate court order.