Winn solicitors saying we owe £13,000

[PinkBump2022]

4 years ago we were parked up eating lunch in the car in an Asda car park. All of a sudden we got crashed into from behind. We got out the car she took photos and the woman took off, we got a picture of her numberplate which is the only reason we Found out who she was. Both cars had some damage. Ours to the back hers to the front. We put a claim in at winns and they said we had a good case. The other party denied it all saying it was a tiny bump. I had whiplash and needed pain killers and physio. After 3 years of her disputing it and us sticking to the same story time and time again we got a court date! The day befoeo the trail we got a phone call from winns saying we would almost certainly loose the court case and should withdraw immediately before any further charges incur and we end up with the other party’s charges too!!!! We again took their advice as we had for 3 years. I didn’t understand why for 3 years they said we had a good case then suddenly we didn’t when obviously nothing had changed. So now we have both had letters my partner owes £8600 and I owe £5775……..
so my question is, does anyone know if we do actually owe this money? Is there a way out of it? Surly it’s no win no fee so how can they charge us?

I’ve also been dealing with Winn’s for the past two years. If it’s the same as it was in my case, my insurer outsources all its claim handling and legal bits to Winn’s. Fucking dreadful company.

People don't read things properly. 'No win no fee' is not 'No win no cost'.

Usually, these companies won't take on 'No win no fee' unless they think there is a 51% chance of winning.

They took your case on initially but then advised you to pull out. At that point, you should have enquired about the costs of doing so. If you had carried on and lost, you would not have the costs to pay. If they did not make it clear that you would have to pay costs if you followed their advice, you may have a little wriggle room. It may be worth complaining to the solicitors ombudsman.

This is the little known/advertised downside to no win/no fee agreements. It will be because you withdrew your claim without giving yourself the chance to not win at Trial. That should have been explained to you before you agreed to discontinue your claim and should have been a very long conversation given the financial implications. Within the documents you were sent at the outset, there will be a section dealing with this and what the hourly rate will be if you do withdraw your claim before Trial. You need to read them carefully and fully to see exactly what your liability is, and what the costs actually relate to. Is it just legal fees or does it include hire, recovery/storage, physio, other treatment, barristers fees etc as that is a different issue. Also, what did the Defence say? Did it specifically plead a low speed impact/positive allegation of fraud? Did your solicitor obtain engineers reports for both vehicles outlining the damage to each? Low speed impacts are tricky (but not impossible) to defend so there must have been strong evidence received to warrant their advice to discontinue. This should have been sent to you. You should have been sent a copy of this as this is a reply to your claim, as well as the Defendant’s witness statements which will be a more detailed version the Defence. What disclosure documents were you sent when disclosure took place? Lots of questions you will need answers to
if you can look to successfully avoid these fees. Look at the online reviews for Winns as well. Ask for Winn’s complaint’s procedure and follow that before escalating if you feel you have grounds to. Good luck!

It absolutely was not OP’s duty to enquire about the costs implications of pulling out- Winns had a duty to explain this in very clear terms. The post by the poster below this one is spot on OP, do what she says.

It's generally no win no fee with Winns, however there will be small print that if you withdraw your claim you will be liable for all costs to date. I think that's what the 13k bill will be for, even though you withdrew at their advice.

How did you get whiplash when your car wasn't moving and the other car must have been going very slowly?
Did you have to wear a collar?
We're you financially affected in any way? Eg did you miss work and not paid because of your injury?

Winn's is obviously famous for no win no fee.
You pulled out so pay the fees.

I take it you don't have Personal injuries on your insurance?
It worth it for this sort thing.

@CharlotteRose90 Well no, the OP expected them to go to court, because they told her she had a good case and that's what they were prepping for. They have not provided the service OP expected.

They've arranged a win win situation for themselves here.

OP, you do not sound very clued up, so as a starting point take all the paperwork and go and see citizens advice. I'd imagine they have something barely legal written into the contract that will suggest you agreed to pay. You are likely going to need to push back and say they deliberately manipulated you into 3 years prep knowing they had no intention of going to court.

Get CB to help you with this, you will need to go via financial ombudsman and do some communicating with the company and you don't have the skills to handle this alone.

I'd certainly be asking them to justify £13k worth of work. That's an absurd amount.

I currently have a no win no fee case open within a Solicitor.

Because you’ve had a car accident, I’m not sure if this makes things any difference but when you do no win, no fee the solicitor should advise you to take out insurance. What that means is, in case you lose, the insurance company covers all the costs involved over the years so you don’t have to pay if you lost. Even if you win and you don’t take out the insurance, you’d be responsible for paying for the solicitor’s time and all the work put in AS WELL AS giving them a percentage of the win.

It sounds as if this wasn’t encouraged or you decided to not take out the insurance? So now that the case is no longer happening, someone still has to pay for their fees. If it’s not the insurance that you would have signed for, then you’ll have to pay them. You should go back and read the T&Cs because sometimes things can be hidden by jargon. It took me three days to go through the T&Cs with my Auntie because I had to understand every single thing I was signing and consenting too.

As a pp said, I also hope you have it in writing that the solicitor told you to withdraw your claim

Yes, thats right but I did say further on that Winns should have outlined any costs forthcoming.

When dealing with solicitors, every other question I ask is 'How much will that cost me?'

Law firms are private companies and not a free service. Solicitors take on claims based on what people tell them. If you are told that your client was involved in a rear ended shunt of course you are going to place prospects of success at over 50%. It’s only if you dig deeper you reveal the bigger picture. As the claim progresses and evidence is received prospects of success can change. Expectations re outcome need to be managed as soon as the evidence changes. Terms of engagement are sent out and signed by the client at the very outset and accepted regardless of what the outcome is. There is generally no scope for changing this when the evidence changes. Unfortunately not many people read the t’s and c’s. The client knows what actually happened in an accident, not the solicitor who wasn’t there at the time the accident happened. The usual terms of engagement are client pays their solicitors costs (or indeed any professionals costs for any professional service retained). The terms of this engagement can be changed ie no win/no fee or agree to accept fixed recoverable costs or fixed small claims costs if the conditions are met but there are caveats/get out clauses for the insurers and solicitors.

I have personal experience of Winns. I got out of paying them anything but it was very scary. At one I thought they'd taken my car. My insurance company told me they are basically complete arseholes just about managing to keep within the law. They manipulate people right after horrible crashes, they're all reassuring and often use dubious tactics and then BOOM...massive bill. They were threatening. We got duped into using them (long story but they use companies that look like other companies online). Their call centre staff laughed when I was almost crying. You should speak to your insurance company...they are under no obligation to help you but mine did but the case was different. If you trust pilot search them its full of horrible stories.

But your insurance company would deal with injury claims so unsure as to why you then chose Winn in the first place

No, insurance companies just deal with the car aspect if you have comp insurance and any claims against you. They won’t deal with your pi claim. If you have LEI they will just refer you to their panel solicitors. I don’t know if Winn are a panel solicitor.

Insurance companies do deal with personal injuries, I work for one who does.
Op may not have opted for it.

So much misinformation and downright wrong information on this thread!

To clear up a few things - if you are involved in a RTA and sustain injury, and the RTA was caused by the negligence of another driver, any claim is made to that drivers insurance company. Not your own insurance - your insurers will only deal with your vehicle, and with the claims of any passengers in your car if you were at fault for the collision.

Winns are a fairly slick operation, we deal with them a lot. They are difficult to deal with but generally get good results. It's very rare for them to run a case all the way to trial and then abandon it at the 11th hour. I think we may only have half the story here...in particular this sounds to me like the other side had evidence of fundamental dishonesty or similar.

Just to be clear, was liability admitted? If not, are you absolutely certain you correctly identified the car and driver? Were you able to describe the other driver? What did the driver say in their witness statement - did they deny being there, or deny that any impact occurred?

It's possible that there's a issue around identification but I would have expected that to be raised much earlier on. So I am leaning more to possible FD, that there is evidence to indicate you have lied about the accident or exaggerated your injuries.

On what basis exactly did Winns say you needed to drop the case? Was reference made to any new evidence being disclosed?

only third party PI claims. Not your own. Your insurance relates to your car. If you take out LEI insurance they will refer you to panel solicitors.

Tbh your claim sounds very dodgy

Hopefully OP can clarify given the comments above. I’ve been very generous with my comments, support and strategy on the limited information provided..

This is interesting. It's a shame to get so hoodwinked by a firm of lawyers. I'm sorry OP.

I can well believe 3 years (of occasional work) worth of costs would be £15k.

Should have been very careful about the costs to you before you engaged them.

Something very fishy about OPs story. On the surface it sounds a winnable case for the solicitor. Apparent medical and Physio evidence, and identification of the offender, so why would they drop the case?

The solicitors firm referenced earlier are Law Society Accredited and regulated by the Solicitors Regulation Authority. In the first instance, if what the OP says is legit, s/he should be complaining to the SRA.
By naming the firm's alleged misdeeds on this forum the OP is potentially libelling them, so I've reported the thread.

The claim of whiplash from what sounds to be a low speed impact is suspicious. It may well be true, but it’s a common fraudulent claim.

Never understand people who feel the need to tell the whole forum that they’ve reported a thread. Just report the thread and go about your day