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Legal matters

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Original poster

Elderly grandmother's house

50 replies

Ayeayeaye · 15/05/2022 10:17

Hi,

Just wondered if anyone could give advice here.

This is about my grandmother who is in her late 90s, still doing well lives in her own house, gets out and about etc. Everyone who meets her says she's amazing and she totally is, we all love her.

This is to do with her house, specifically what she needs to do to ensure that her family would get her house in the event of her passing, and not the government (I don't know all the ins and outs of this but I remember it being mentioned years ago and my mother has mentioned it another couple of times recently.)

Basically a friend/neighbour told her years ago that she knew someone who had signed over the house to her family and the family ended up kicking her out of the house... I don't know all the details but it was basically "elderly person did this for her family and family ended up betraying her and stealing her house".
I mean it might not even have happened or details might have been murky but this is what she was told and believed.

So basically this was on my grandmother's mind and she refused to go and sign paper work so that the house would pass to the family when she dies, all because of what her friend told her! This was years ago that my mother had discussed this with her and because she's so old now and my grandmother had said ok lets sign the papers but the time has passed and it's too late for anything to be done my mum said and the house will go to the government instead of her family after she passes away.

Is there a way around this does anyone know?

OP posts:

CornishPorsche · 15/05/2022 10:19

Eh? She just needs to write a will, surely. Is this in England?

Asiama · 15/05/2022 10:19

Which country is she in?

Original poster

Ayeayeaye · 15/05/2022 10:20

Scotland, thanks

OP posts:

DaftyLass · 15/05/2022 10:22

Has she wrote a will yet?

MichelleScarn · 15/05/2022 10:23

Are you talking about trying deprivation of capital, so avoiding paying care home fees if she needs that level of care? That's not the government taking her money, that would be paying for her care.
I actually think it's too late sorry, I.know in Scotland they go back 7 years I think from when you need care.

pumpkinmash · 15/05/2022 10:23

But who will pay for her care bills if she needs to go into a home?

The government has no interest in taking her home. Many people have to sell their houses to release the money to pay for the care they need in the final years of their life.

hellrabbitishere · 15/05/2022 10:23

if shes left no will then everything as i can read although im no expert will only go to the crown if there are no surviving relatives , im assuming thats all assets including the house , if she needs to go into care ,would she need to sell her house to pay for it ? although some of thats changed now as well though , id get legal advice personally

MichelleScarn · 15/05/2022 10:24

The house would only go to the government or Ultimate Haeres (sp!) If there was no family for it to go to. Don't worry!

Original poster

Ayeayeaye · 15/05/2022 10:24

There's info here, I doubt she's got 7 years left unfortunately:

www.rocketlawyer.com/gb/en/quick-guides/transferring-property-in-scotland#:~:text=Transfer%20to%20an%20individual,7%20years%20before%20they%20die.

OP posts:

Mischance · 15/05/2022 10:25

So basically this was on my grandmother's mind and she refused to go and sign paper work so that the house would pass to the family when she dies

I have no idea what this might mean. What document might this be? When someone dies their assets go to close family if they die without a will. It sounds as though she did not want to arrange to sign it over at an earlier stage in her life (presumably so you could avoid inheritance tax (?), or she could avoid care fees if that had arisen).

There is, as far as I am aware, no standard paperwork that could have been signed. If she has left a will, then the contents will be clear; if she has not then her children (i.e. your parents and your aunts and uncles)

Original poster

Ayeayeaye · 15/05/2022 10:31

MichelleScarn · 15/05/2022 10:23

Yes deprivation of capital, I should have googled first sorry!

A former neighbour of mine was talking about doing this years ago, they've signed their house over to their child and they're only in their 70s, made me think about my grandmother again.

I don't know if she's got a will, she seems to just be in denial of things really. Like I said she still lives at home, very independent but she had a set back last year which really knocked her confidence and we don't live forever unfortunately. She's doing well now but my mum had to look after her for a while and really struggled. She's mentioned the house thing to me a couple of times recently.

So does she just have to put it in a (legally binding) will that she wants the house to pass to family assuming she doesn't need to go into care? And if she goes into care the house is gone to pay for it?

OP posts:

BlanketsBanned · 15/05/2022 10:35

She makes a Will leaving her estate to her family, does anybody want the house, how many family members are there.

A580Hojas · 15/05/2022 10:36

Perhaps get your story straight before asking Mumsnet? If you don't know what you're talking about it's unlikely anyone here will.

pumpkinmash · 15/05/2022 10:39

Her house will naturally pass to her family upon her death, along with the rest of her estate, once all her debts and liabilities are paid off first. This is different from what you started talking about - that the family wanted ownership transferred before her death but she didn't want that to happen.

hellrabbitishere · 15/05/2022 10:41

Ayeayeaye · 15/05/2022 10:31

Yes deprivation of capital, I should have googled first sorry!

A former neighbour of mine was talking about doing this years ago, they've signed their house over to their child and they're only in their 70s, made me think about my grandmother again.

Show quote history

sorry but i hate this shitty attitude that because she has a house , you and she feel it would be best to avoid her having to pay for any care she might need and so just lump it onto the goverment so you can benefit from it , personally i think if you have a house and need care which needs paying for then your house should be used to pay for it and i bloody hope its not as easy as just signing it over to family and the house is gone so it cant be used

thehillswerebright · 15/05/2022 10:41

So my mum and dad have their wills set up that when one of them dies the other half of the house gets held in a liferent for my my and in fee for myself (that's the direct wording on the will). It's quite common in scotland as far as I know to do it like this so that the house can't be forced to be sold, I'm not going to lie though I don't fully understand it.

Chemenger · 15/05/2022 10:41

This is what a will is for: setting out who you want your property to go to when you die. You need to explain better why you think this doesn’t apply here. If she needs care then she will need to pay for it, like everyone else with assets, possibly this will involve having to sell her house to release capital. The balance of what is left will then go to family. If there is no will there are rules about who gets what. If she wants to be sure that things are distributed as she wishes then she needs to make a will.

Querty123456 · 15/05/2022 10:45

Agree. This is confusing. Are you saying she’s trying to avoid having her house sold to pay for care home fees?

Original poster

Ayeayeaye · 15/05/2022 10:45

We're just a very small family we all have our own homes so nobody "wants" or needs the house but better us getting the house than it going to the government or whatever happens (hope that doesn't sound bad). Incidentally my own parents haven't done anything about this for their own home either but my mother is a hoarder and my dad is sick so it's probably not on their radar.

Sorry like I said before I should have googled for info before but just wanted to ask here as it was on my mind. I have no idea about legal matters. Definitely sounds like we've missed the boat regarding the transfer thing.

Thanks for the comments.

OP posts:

CornishPorsche · 15/05/2022 10:47

@Ayeayeaye www.careinfoscotland.scot/topics/care-homes/paying-care-home-fees/selling-your-home/#:~:text=If%20you%20have%20capital%20assets,free%20personal%20and%20nursing%20care). This seems to be what you're asking about.

It's not the government who'll get the money if you're gran goes into a care home - it's the care home that get it. The cost of housing her, staff, food, medical care etc has to be covered.

Mischance · 15/05/2022 10:48

If she were to go into care tomorrow, then the value of all her income and assets (including the house) would be taken into consideration to decide her fee. If she had signed the house over to family 7 years ago then the value of that house would be ignored (on the grounds that it is not hers). However, even after the 7 years was up, alarm bells would be raised unless she was actively paying rent to someone (i.e. family who are the owners of the property).

If she is in her late 90s then this ship has sailed frankly; and I would tell your Mum to forget it. She will get her money anyway.

Mischance · 15/05/2022 10:52

This not wanting money to "go to the government" makes no sense to me. It is not going to the government when someone is in a care home - it is going to pay the fees.

What you are basically saying is that that care should be fully funded by the government, which is a valid stance. Whilst I believe that the current funding system for care needs a thorough overhaul, even I do not think that the person being cared for should pay nothing.

Crazylazydayz · 15/05/2022 10:53

Your grandmothers house won’t go to the government. The first £325k is free from inheritance tax, on top of that if her house is worth at least £175k and she leaves it to her direct descendents this is also free from inheritance tax I.e. £500k.

If your grandparents were married and your grandfather left his estate to your grandmother then you also have his allowance to, potentially £1 million before her estate has to pay inheritance tax.

If however your grandmother has been receiving care, then yes the cost is quite rightly paid from her estate.

Original poster

Ayeayeaye · 15/05/2022 10:59

Ok I'm starting to understand this now, so the money from the house would go to care fees. Thanks everyone.

OP posts:

bigbluebus · 15/05/2022 11:00

The only way to avoid the house being used for any care costs is if your family provide care for her should she need it. Otherwise the house will be used to pay for the care, and will be sold to pay for the costs if she goes into home.

Local Authorities are pretty hot on checking for deprivation of assets these days. Not sure the 7 year rule even applies if they can prove that the property was deliberately transfered in order to avoid care costs. 7 year rule applies for inheritance tax purposes though - which at your Gran's age is probably a bit late to do anything about if she is likely to hit the threshold.

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