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Legal matters

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Neighbour request to come on my land for repairs

42 replies

Annette32123 · 01/03/2022 22:33

Wonder if anyone has knowledge of the legal situation here. Posted earlier in property but folk there suggested posting here in legal.

Difficult neighbours - more than ten years of general hostility and awkwardness, so we have no inclination to be helpful.

They need (and have the right according to the title deeds) to come onto our property to do repairs to their property they can’t easily access from their side - the house is close to the boundary fence.

They turned up unannounced demanding access immediately on the day a couple of months back so we refused - it was the middle of a working day, it wasn’t an emergency and they disturbed us during WFH multiple times through the day despite us saying no the first time and making them aware that we were working and send their workman around rather than bothering to approach us themselves which didn’t help! No discussion beyond that since.

Now they have informed us they want access, with seven days notice. Which is more reasonable.

They have not needed access in the decade we have lived here.

However there are two issues:

  1. To access the area needed, a large greenhouse would (potentially) need to be moved - though someone in property suggested just removing the roof glass so that’s also a potential solution which would be easier
  2. We work Mon -Fri and can’t take annual leave on a few days notice

So in regard to 1) above, would they need to arrange dismantling, moving, re-erecting at their cost? And should we ask for evidence of insurance from their workmen to cover any damage, before allowing access? Are we required to allow them to dismantle it at all?

And in regards to 2) above, can we reasonably ask either that the work is scheduled for a weekend or evening? If not, can we reasonably ask for a longer notice period to allow one of us to book time off work? Should we expect to be compensated for the time taken, as we would need to oversee the workmen throughout to ensure there is no damage? I’m not comfortable leaving people to ‘get on with it’ - we have expensive garden tools and so on that could easily be stolen and I would never leave anyone not known to me unsupervised.

The relationship with the neighbour is already appalling - could write a book and obviously believe we are the more reasonable party! - so preserving any semblance of cooperation isn’t really relevant - they commenced hostilities within weeks of us moving in, so we don’t feel at all bad if we are seen as ‘difficult’ now that they need us to cooperate with them. Indeed it might make them reflect on their historic behaviour - though I doubt it! Any insights into what we are legally required to do would be appreciated.

Thank you!

OP posts:
Collaborate · 02/03/2022 10:32

I am not a property lawyer, but would say 1. Yes 2. Probably not.

What do your deeds say about access? Under the Access to Neighbouring Land Act www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1992/23/contents they have the right to come on to your land to carry out essential works of repair but not to improve their property. And they can't simply do it on their terms.

ICouldBeAnyone · 02/03/2022 10:34

I don’t know about the legalities but, if I needed to go on a neighbours property to carry out maintenance on my home, I would consider a green house that was restricting my access to be the neighbours problem to move. The green house is basically making it impossible to carry out maintenance so surely shouldn’t be in that spot?

I would also not be happy with being expected to pay for it and wouldn’t be happy having to work through the green house roof to carry out maintenance. Imagine if they slipped and crashed into the rest of the green house! I’ve known someone end up needing micro surgery on their hands when they were just fitting one new pain of glass. That’s an accident waiting to happen.

www.mylawyer.co.uk/going-onto-your-neighbours-land-a-A76076D34458/

Collaborate · 02/03/2022 11:22

[quote ICouldBeAnyone]I don’t know about the legalities but, if I needed to go on a neighbours property to carry out maintenance on my home, I would consider a green house that was restricting my access to be the neighbours problem to move. The green house is basically making it impossible to carry out maintenance so surely shouldn’t be in that spot?

I would also not be happy with being expected to pay for it and wouldn’t be happy having to work through the green house roof to carry out maintenance. Imagine if they slipped and crashed into the rest of the green house! I’ve known someone end up needing micro surgery on their hands when they were just fitting one new pain of glass. That’s an accident waiting to happen.

www.mylawyer.co.uk/going-onto-your-neighbours-land-a-A76076D34458/[/quote]
This is entirely wrong. No one has the right to build up to their boundary and expect their neighbour to leave an exclusion zone at the boundary.

Annette32123 · 02/03/2022 15:52

Thanks for the replies!

I posted initially in property and have had some useful input there too (www.mumsnet.com/Talk/property/4494458-Neighbour-access-to-our-property?msgid=115536733#115536733)

A complication is that I now think it is improvement and not essential maintenance. Guttering is only 15 years old and no cracks or leaks or sagging and all the screws and fittings are intact - it looks perfect. Recent torrential downpour I went out to check and it wasn’t overflowing or anything. It’s perfect. I think it’s a cosmetic update! Does that change things?

OP posts:
thinkover · 02/03/2022 16:09

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

WhenDovesFly · 02/03/2022 16:25

@thinkover, that's a very rude and unnecessary response.

The OP clearly stated that the NDNs initiated the hostility soon after they moved in. Why should she go out of her way to accommodate them now they want something? If this is cosmetic work there's no way I'd agree to having my greenhouse moved. At the very least I'd make the NDN's workers do it, and demand to see insurance first. I'd also take lots of pictures of the greenhouse in case there was any dispute afterwards about damage.

OP, if you WFH why can't they access the back garden during a WFH day? No need to give them access through the house if you have side access. You surely don't have to be standing right over them while they work? If you have expensive tools are in a shed then it would be common sense to have a good lock on the door anyway.

Annette32123 · 02/03/2022 16:57

@thinkover

You sound very hard work, uptight, inflexible and quite frankly up your own backside. I’m not surprised there is historical fall out.

Sometimes it’s not all about legality and it’s just nice to help out a neighbour. So what if they do the work whilst you are WFH…do you really think the tradesmen will steal your ‘expensive garden tools’? They no doubt have a vehicle full of expensive tools themselves. Do you really plan to stand and watch them for 8 hours? Where do you live, Buckingham place?!

If it’s improvement rather than essential…so what? Surely improvement to the neighbourhood improves aesthetics for all?

Re. The greenhouse. Make it clear any damage would need to be put right, but again if they are using professionals I expect they are more than capable of finding a work round solution.

Just live and let live!

Hahahaha!

It takes two for neighbours to get along. It only takes one for them to fall out. I wasn’t the one who caused hostility but I won’t continue giving obnoxious people the benefit of the doubt. Why would I?

I require nothing from them. I need no access to their land. I need no interaction at all with them. I can happily live beside them and ignore them. And ignore them I do even though they persist in damaging my property - I have the patience of a saint!

But given they have regularly damaged my belongings I also know that they will deny it and refuse to pay for repairs or replacement. If anything is damaged during any works I am under no illusion; I would either need to pay the costs myself or take them to the small claims court. I’ve learned the hard way that they will deny deny deny even with incontrovertible evidence. You can’t reason with people like that. They are like that song ‘It wasn’t me!’……… even when she caught my on the counter and in the shower and in the bathroom floor! Wink

In all other situations I would agree with you. And with other neighbours that would be my approach. But these tossers have been rude and obnoxious and cost me money and installed illegal structures on their property and refused all reason and at every step I’ve been the bigger person and not escalated it because ‘neighbours’.

So in this situation, I don’t think it unreasonable that I meet my legal requirements towards them and no more. If the situation were reversed I can assure you they would never accommodate anything needed from me. Or from anyone. They are self absorbed and entitled and unreasonable.

In terms of damage it’s more likely pots and glass and things will be damaged rather then theft - but replacing a £300 terracotta pot isn’t a small thing and if one gets broken I would completely expect to have to pursue them through the courts. I am 100% sure they would deny it was them even if I had video of it happening, because they rely on people not wanting the headache and expense of pursing a claim. It’s how they operate. So yes I would want to be there even if it takes 8 hours so if something is damaged I can immediately talk to the tradesman and get liability confirmed. One of their tradesmen dropped a brick over the fence from a height while working on something years ago and smashed a pot - I didn’t see it happen but the brick and broken pot were side by side; they refused to accept liability, refused to tell me who company was, denied it was them (while accepting they had someone building a wall that day on their side with those bricks!) and in the end they never paid up. So I do think I’m entirely justified. I have nice things. My garden is full of things I have saved for and paid for and they have no respect for those things.

And I owe them nothing because they have behaved so badly historically! If that makes me uptight, then I will embrace it. I’m not required to #BeKind

OP posts:
Annette32123 · 02/03/2022 17:00

@WhenDovesFly
Thank you. I agree.

I was curious actually whether I could reasonable ask to see insurance details and the name of the firm and so on - would that be ok for me to insist on seeing? Unless they are legally required to show it to me they will refuse, so useful to know if I’m entitled or not.

I’m also getting the message on the other thread that I don’t need to allow anything to be moved - they need to work around my structure even if that means erecting scaffolding or whatever. Is that your understanding?

Thanks again!

OP posts:
Bramshott · 02/03/2022 17:02

Can they not temporarily dismantle the boundary fence (assuming it's theirs rather than yours) and then reinstate it after the work has been done?

PearPickingPorky · 02/03/2022 17:11

[quote ICouldBeAnyone]I don’t know about the legalities but, if I needed to go on a neighbours property to carry out maintenance on my home, I would consider a green house that was restricting my access to be the neighbours problem to move. The green house is basically making it impossible to carry out maintenance so surely shouldn’t be in that spot?

I would also not be happy with being expected to pay for it and wouldn’t be happy having to work through the green house roof to carry out maintenance. Imagine if they slipped and crashed into the rest of the green house! I’ve known someone end up needing micro surgery on their hands when they were just fitting one new pain of glass. That’s an accident waiting to happen.

www.mylawyer.co.uk/going-onto-your-neighbours-land-a-A76076D34458/[/quote]
What utter tosh.

I am gobsmacked that you truly think this would be a reasonable position.

Annette32123 · 02/03/2022 17:15

@Bramshott

Can they not temporarily dismantle the boundary fence (assuming it's theirs rather than yours) and then reinstate it after the work has been done?
Oooh that’s a novel idea. Yes. I think they could. Thank you.
OP posts:
Annette32123 · 02/03/2022 17:20

@ICouldBeAnyone
I agree with @PearPickingPorky that you are off the mark on this. On the other thread someone made the point that my neighbours desire to use my land for their convenience isn’t a priority over my desire to use my land how I want. Because I own it. Which is a good point. They have the right to come onto my land but that they would need to work around any structures I have in place. Because it’s my land and they might only need access once every 20-30 years so of course I shouldn’t sit with it unused for their convenience!!

OP posts:
NigellaAwesome · 02/03/2022 17:22

We had similar a few years ago. Difficult neighbour sent a builder round who 'informed' us he would be putting scaffolding up on our driveway to repair his chimney.

Erm, no. I don't think so.

They ended up having to do a complicated balancing scaffold affair and the builder and owner bitched and bitched that it was more complicated / cost more to do.

Had the neighbour not been an arsehole for years and years, and had he actually approached us to discuss, then we would most likely have taken a completely different stance.

thinkover · 02/03/2022 17:22

Well you’ve emitted a whole back story that changes the context entirely. Very different to ‘general hostility and awkwardness’ as per OP.

If it’s on your title deeds then I assume you knew it was a requirement when you purchased the property. Given the latest backstory id suggest a day that suits me (but a working day as annual leave is OTT I’m sure you can keep a general eye out without standing over them) and move anything you can - like £300 plant pots. Take photos of before and let the neighbours know you have done so.

You might not like it but if it’s in your deeds you have to let them have access. Be straightforward and amenable in order to make it as less an issue for all involved - not necessarily for your neighbours sake but your own.

WomblingWilma · 02/03/2022 17:23

We need a diagram OP. I’m can’t picture why you would need to take the roof off your greenhouse to give them access Confused.

Beetlebum1981 · 02/03/2022 17:35

Definitely ask for a copy of insurance from builders - DH works in the field, we're in a similar position re access to neighbouring property and he's recently asked for it. It just means that if they do cause any damage they can pay for it.

I think the idea of removing the fence, it's a bugger to move a greenhouse!

Also, could you get a cheap camera to place in your house overlooking the area they're doing work? If they've form for damaging stuff you'll have proof then.

Annette32123 · 02/03/2022 17:39

@thinkover
Well I thought general hostility encompassed it. I didn’t mean they failed to give me a cheery wave as they walked past the house!!!

The pots are 3’ tall and 3’ wide and filled with soil and shrubs. Would need equipment to move them - they are immovable. I could empty them of soil but when then I would need two men to move an empty one.

@NigellaAwesome my sympathies - it’s rotten isn’t it?

@WomblingWilma my greenhouse is up to the fence and their house is also up to the fence. 2’ gap their side, 1’ gap my side. So to get a ladder up from my side would mean moving greenhouse or taking glass out of greenhouse roof so they put ladder into greenhouse through roof - someone on other thread suggested it. Removing fence might also work as they would then have 3’ to work. Should be enough.

OP posts:
thatsnotabadger · 02/03/2022 17:45

The bit I don't get here is why you'd need a day's annual leave? Is it not a case of giving them access then leaving the builder to it? This has been the way when 2 of our neighbours have accessed our garden for improvements to their own properties.

thatsnotabadger · 02/03/2022 17:47

Ah sorry didn't read properly ignore me!

PearPickingPorky · 02/03/2022 17:50

Definitely get a camera. And yes, if the builders damage your property (your pots etc, or smash your greenhouse) then they are liable for it (whether they have insurance or not, but obviously insurance makes it easier for you to actually be paid!). Whereas any costs involved in getting access (eg taking down then reinstating the fence) are at the neighbour's cost.

Nidan2Sandan · 02/03/2022 17:55

I think you're being reasonable in everything except the needing to take leave or do evenings/weekends part. Seems a bit melodramatic. Assuming the builders have insurance I cant see the issue.

If you're worried do a video or series of pictures of your garden and belongings the day before to allow for proof of any damage. But hopefully a professional company will not do this.

averylongtimeago · 02/03/2022 17:59

If they are replacing guttering- how high do they have to reach- two stories?
The builder probably won't want to work off a ladder (health and safety) but use a tower scaffold instead.
If they put one each end of the green house, could they put planks between the two towers? Or this sort of arrangement?

Neighbour request to come on my land for repairs
Annette32123 · 02/03/2022 18:16

@thatsnotabadger

Ah sorry didn't read properly ignore me!
That’s ok! With the other side, I was around when they sent workmen once but only so I could make them cups of tea and lock the gate when they left. All very amicable of course. I’m not a paranoid git as a rule!
OP posts:
Annette32123 · 02/03/2022 18:18

@averylongtimeago

If they are replacing guttering- how high do they have to reach- two stories? The builder probably won't want to work off a ladder (health and safety) but use a tower scaffold instead. If they put one each end of the green house, could they put planks between the two towers? Or this sort of arrangement?
It’s two stories - but a high two stories. I believe they want to use ladders but it would be difficult. Yes they could put up two scaffold towers and have planks between - that would work!
OP posts:
averylongtimeago · 02/03/2022 18:26

And it would have the benefit of costing your neighbours more money....

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