Fact finding hearing - child access

[userclip]

So I've been in a relationship for a few ninety's and things are going well but just wondering if I should take a step back or be a little careful

Basically this week he is going to court to get access to child (hasn't seen them for 8 months) but it turns out this week is a fact finding hearing because of allegations the ex has made, he claims all are untrue and no proof extra but I'm just wondering if a fact finding hearing is just usual practice or are these only done when absolutely necessary

He claims he's totally moved on from ex and things were bad for while before they split but he seems to be getting really worked up about having to see her in court (maybe this is normal to feel like that) Also just found out this weekend that they were in fact meant to of got married last august, everything booked and paid for

Plus making up things posters allegedly said in some other unspecified thread, and claiming it is some kind of gotcha.

Very weak beer.

@MrsBertBibby

Plus making up things posters allegedly said in some other unspecified thread, and claiming it is some kind of gotcha.

Very weak beer.

I think posters are capable of finding posts by the same user.

I'm leaving it there because clearly the OP has made up mind. Given what wad said though, I do think other posters will want to be aware of the outcome as the OP had said she would give an update...

Anyway OP, sorry your thread here got derailed. That tends to happen when the F4J types show up.

I think you are wise to listen to your worries, this man isn't coming to you with an open page, and the likelihood is that there is some truth in what the ex has said.

Every line trotted out about getting housing and legal aid is used by the dad in virtually every F of F I've done, btw. It's like they have a script.

@userclip

Update he won't the case 100%, she admitted in court a lot of the allegations weren't true and he has been given immediate access to the child (1st meeting within 7 days) Judge asked her to give address where child is, she initially refused and judge told her he would hold her in contempt of court if she didn't immediately

There is no winning. My ex had no contact for months whilst cafcass assessed and yes he did hit me but proving it is hard.

At court immediate access (supervised) was given and it built up - doesn’t mean he’s not guilty. Please don’t believe this. Why would you get caught up on this high conflict situation.

If she admitted lying I would strongly think that the judge would have given him immediate custody. Be careful. What he says and reality are not the same.

@RedToothBrush my comment wasn't aimed at you

[quote MrsBertBibby]**@RedToothBrush my comment wasn't aimed at you [/quote]
Sorry, bit touchy. This thread randomly came up on my active list and it had nearly the exact same title as the other thread so i looked.

The difference between the two is 'interesting'.

All very depressing really having read the other thread where it transpires the reasons for not knowing this woman and child’s location were due to emergency refuge accommodation being sought.

@userclip having read that other thread why are you doing this to yourself and indeed your children? This man is not being honest with you and I would end things immediately if I were you. None of this is anything but worrying and his attitude towards his ex is in likelihood is what he’ll demonstrate towards you if you stick around.

Have you seen the paperwork? Ask to see the paperwork from the hearing? @userclip

You'd be an absolute fool to continue this relationship. Whatever line he's spun you, he's a danger to you and your child.

Did he explain why he lied about which town this case was being heard in?

Even if what he says is true - why do you want the drama in your life? And in fact it's highly likely not to be true based on the fact you e caught him lying to you already.

@femfemlicious

Have you seen the paperwork? Ask to see the paperwork from the hearing? *@userclip*

Much of this will be confidential court documentation, which can’t be shared.

You were warned of this outcome on the other thread... Fathers invariably get contact. My ex got interim unsupervised contact at the first hearing, assaulted me in broad daylight weeks later at a contact handover in front of our child in a public place - members of the public intervened and called the police... he then got MORE unsupervised contact at the next hearing. The court did this in the full knowledge and opening acknowledging he was an abusive man who really thought nothing of striking a woman - he even justified having done so to the judge! You are very much mistaken to be led by the fact contact was ordered. That was a given, as I said on your other thread.. he of course told his girlfriend a very different story. This decision has allowed him to spin his narrative in a plausible way sucking you in more...

You are ignoring so many red flags.. I sincerely hope you don't live to regret it.

p.s. court documentation can be shared for the purpose of seeking advice on a confidential basis. My lawyer confirmed this to me. I shared all the reports from social services and orders with my mother who supported me through the ordeal.

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/714463/ex710-eng.pdf

Surely nobody is so stupid to take a risk on this man when proof if almost impossible and any reason to allow access will be given. Bloody scary that the no doubt next victim is so keen to assume innocence. Why get involved in unnecessary drama

My brothers ex wife accused him of all sorts and he spent 29k defending himself to get access to his kids. She lost and then social services started investigating her for abuse. It isn't always man bad woman good. We should be wary but also not judge must because it is a man.

You weren't there and he won't show you any documentation so you only have the man who lied to you about the location of the hearing to rely on. That is a risk.

You have children and your job as their mother is to limit risk to them. Sure, he could be telling the truth and he will date again but it doesn't have to be you taking that risk.

I sincerely hope you don't experience any issues with this man if you are suddenly now set on staying with him and believing him.

Ha! Not me, I am busily self=employed and have shared care of my baby daughter 50/50 so don't have as much time to post on here.

I am amazed the assumptions some people have made.

Unknown83 isn't me there is no way I would claim domestic abuse is claimed in 25% of cases when the true figure is significantly higher. I have posted links in the past at a figure more around the 60-70% mark which is in stark difference to the ONS stats at around 4%. But I can't fault Unknown83's other remarks.

Making false allegations is a form of domestic abuse:
www.mankind.org.uk/

I can't imagine many coercive controllers frightened to see their ex in court. I was very pleased when in the early stages my ex chose to use a guard so I didn't have to see her face.

@userclip

Update he won't the case 100%, she admitted in court a lot of the allegations weren't true and he has been given immediate access to the child (1st meeting within 7 days) Judge asked her to give address where child is, she initially refused and judge told her he would hold her in contempt of court if she didn't immediately

You don’t WIN a finding of fact hearing🙄..... I’ve come across many of these in my job role.....and this is all sounding like a load of bollocks....you sound very naive OP

@Skeptadad

You weren’t tagged in the first comment I made so not no busy that you didn’t come rooting for threads to post on I see

Although now of course you’ve lent your luminous musings to the debate and the similarities are there for all to see

Enough said

Also listening to my 2 year old say much such pride "my mummy does x" and "I am going to do this with my mummy" makes me feel that whoever decides to come between a child knowing the love that child has for a parent, unless there is severe domestic abuse, is likely sociopathic or has severe mental health issues as that kind of talk can't help but effect anyone with any level of empathy. If I did that I know I would also be emotionally hurting my ex.

I never bought any findings against my ex even though the district judge made it clear they would have gone against my ex. Why? Because this isn't about me it's about our daughter. I want my slightly unhinged ex to be involved as even though she is bonkers she is the only mum she has and I know she loves her very much.

It's really really sick behaviour.

@Skeptadad

Also listening to my 2 year old say much such pride "my mummy does x" and "I am going to do this with my mummy" makes me feel that whoever decides to come between a child knowing the love that child has for a parent, unless there is severe domestic abuse, is likely sociopathic or has severe mental health issues as that kind of talk can't help but effect anyone with any level of empathy. If I did that I know I would also be emotionally hurting my ex.

I never bought any findings against my ex even though the district judge made it clear they would have gone against my ex. Why? Because this isn't about me it's about our daughter. I want my slightly unhinged ex to be involved as even though she is bonkers she is the only mum she has and I know she loves her very much.

It's really really sick behaviour.

If your ex is a risk to your child’s physical or emotional harm why aren’t you acting?

Because you want to look the better parent? Because full time care of your child isn’t what you want and you like the toxic drama?

How is a young child being exposed to and left to live with someone - whom you’ve repeatedly described on these boards as abusive and unhinged - for half her life in her best interests precisely?

Or is it to just prove a point about domestic abuse mostly being a load of tosh and you don’t want to run the risk? If a judge was concerned he or she wouldn’t need your blessing to proceed. You’re not some sort of omnipotent force for jurisprudence and its application in the family courts.

You aren’t being honest

I truly don't believe for one moment a fact finding judgement was given that quickly. I was in court for 3 days. I had to wait 2 months for written judgement to be given. Are you completely sure he's being truthful?

Also, agree with Pp, you don't "win" a fact finding. It's inherently rare for findings to be made against just one party, the judge more than likely made findings against him also as well as her! Seeing as you weren't there in Court, I really wouldn't believe everything he's told you.

Because things aren't binary and are more nuanced that what you would suggest.

My ex would be considered a "good enough parent" by myself and family members who are senior social workers and also childrens social services who worked with her for two years.

I had a new barrister for a year and she said her behaviou worsened as she lost control. She didn't want to lose possession of our daughter so her behaviour got out of control. I can understand why someone desperate might do something desperate. Does it make them abusive or desperate? She was abusive to me but nor our daughter - again this things aren't simple.

Our daughter will grow up with a dysfunctional mum and a successful dad with a growing business who is well adjusted and has good emotional intelligence.

What would be worse to remove a child from her mother or her to grow up knowing her mum is cookie and figuring things out for herself? I can't shield her from everything in life and nor would I want to. She isn't a harm to daughter she will just be confusing until she reaches an age to know her mums a bit of an odd bod.

Maybe you are right it would have suited me to have excluded ex entirely so I could buy near my family in the north west where I could have bought a very large home for daughter and I. I suppose only time will tell if I made the right decision the Social Worker involved said "your ex is lucky you want to work with her". However I never saw this about me I always viewed this through the eyes of daughter who had a successful and established relationship with her mum.

The way I view it is that the emotional harm of completing removing a child from a parent would need something substantive to happen and the damage or maintaining that relationship would need to be greater than the impact of losing a parent. If the parent is a problem time should be reduced to mitigate against damage done whilst keeping in a relationship going.

Maybe there is some societal bias where we worry more about leaving children with men than the reverse. I can definitely see it I wouldn't leave daughter with any of my male friends but I would with any of my female friends but the question is is that fear warranted?

Anyway the District Judge said this case would go back to her if I went back to court in the future and she has the measure of ex so it's not like the current arrangement is irreversible should something warrant the need to return to court.