If a Will mentions jewellery, like watches etc who takes priority?

[inheritancetrack]

The Will we are contesting mentions division of rings, watches, tiepins, cufflinks and jewellery (some heirlooms, some just cheap costume jewellery). It specifies it is to be divided between the 3 beneficiaries, but doesn't mention who can have which items. It does say 'mainly to .... and ....., (the two daughters). They can have the majority, but its a really sticking point when it comes to the gifted stuff. (we know being a gift isn't relevant insofar as reclamation goes). Mainly isn't very specific.

My relative wishes to have only the gifts given to the deceased, which are less than the majority and probably have a smaller monetary value. (5 from 36)

However the other beneficiaries are saying they want those items and clearly its just for the money or vindictiveness, as they have no sentimental value for them, but immense value to the surviving spouse.

Obviously mutual agreement is needed but this isn't happening so what does the law say, or what can we do to keep precious memories?

Are the three beneficiaries the deceased's wife and daughters?

It is probably up to the executor, they are the ones tasked with carrying out the wishes of the deceased with the will. I take it that the surviving spouse isn't the parent of the daughters? You seem to be on the side of the spouse. What makes you think that the daughters are being vindictive?

There is no hard and fast rule. It sounds as if the will wasn't very clearly written.

@prh47bridge

There is no hard and fast rule. It sounds as if the will wasn't very clearly written.

No items specified in the Will, except in general terms. Homemade will. Total disaster. Mediation is being booked shortly so unless it can be agreed beforehand, it will have to form part of the negotiations. Spouse is determined that gifts of a sentimental value to themselves and not to the other family members will stay in their possession. I suspect the daughters will try to push for these items as a negotiating tool to reduce the percentage of property awarded.

You all take it in turns to pick one item each until all the items are shared out.
You can flip for the picking order if necessary.

This can fall under the remit of the executor.

@ChicCroissant

It is probably up to the executor, they are the ones tasked with carrying out the wishes of the deceased with the will. I take it that the surviving spouse isn't the parent of the daughters? You seem to be on the side of the spouse. What makes you think that the daughters are being vindictive?

I don't believe the executor can do anything except what the Will says and it says 'mainly to the daughters'. Spouse of the deceased it happy they have the main amount but is not going to agree to the wedding ring and other gifts which mean nothing to them. How can a wedding ring worn by the deceased and given on their wedding day have significant meaning for anyone other than the spouse? 2nd marriage so not daughters of the claimant.

Just to be clear, the daughters are trying to include gifts given to the still-living spouse in the property they want a share of?
That's the way I've read it.
If I'm correct, the daughters have no claim on the remaining spouse's possessions.

X-post

@Sideswiped

Just to be clear, the daughters are trying to include gifts given to the still-living spouse in the property they want a share of? That's the way I've read it. If I'm correct, the daughters have no claim on the remaining spouse's possessions.

The jewellery, watches, cuff links, rings etc are all the property of the deceased. The bereaved spouse gave the deceased certain items (around 5) like a wedding ring, so they all belonged to the deceased. The Will specifies the bulk of all valuable be given to the daughters, but they are to be divided between the three of them. Surviving spouse only wants what they gave but can't demand these.

It does seem to be a grey area unless it's mentioned specifically in the Will and turn taking has been mentioned, but it's open to negotiation. I think it will have to form part of the upcoming mediation.

Sounds like the spouse is not willing to negotiate at all which is going to make things tricky. I think you need to take a step back (you say 'we') from this and leave them to it. This stage of bereavement is often hard and a badly written will won't be helping, sorry to say I hope it can be resolved without increasing the bad feeling on both sides.

FWIW, my mother was married twice and I've got both of her wedding rings - my stepdad gave me hers for my DD. Would the spouse agree to pass the wedding ring on to the DD's in her will? Would that be a way forward?

Do you mean that the daughters want to have their deceased mother's rings from her second marriage, while her second husband is still alive?
I think you are right, it is just vindictive.

"mainly to the daughters" is hopelessly vague. It could be interpreted as meaning they get 51% to split between them and the spouse gets 49%. Or it could be taken as the daughters each get 49% and the spouse gets 2%. This is the kind of thing that is often found in homemade wills, sadly, which is why lawyers specialising in contentious probate get so much income from them.

Sounds like the spouse is not willing to negotiate at all which is going to make things tricky

Doesn't sound like that to me. There are clearly some red lines but that doesn't mean the spouse won't negotiate. The real problem in this case is that the will leaves the spouse nothing apart from an unspecified share of the jewellery. The daughters are trying to keep it that way, but the spouse is clearly entitled to more under the Inheritance Act.

Fairest way is this IMHO. Oldest person picks one item, then next person chooses then next. Then back to first person and do on till sll the items gone. However, in this case there are added complications because of the second marriage. I think it's cheeky of the second husband to want gifts the first husband gave. They should go to the daughters

@ChicCroissant The bereaved spouse has their own two daughters and a son so wants to leave the few items they are claiming to their own children, as the deceased was unfailingly generous to their own DD (stepdaughters) while excluding the bereaved spouses DCs throughout the marriage. There is no chance of an ongoing relationship after all that's gone on.

@Choccyp1g

Do you mean that the daughters want to have their deceased mother's rings from her second marriage, while her second husband is still alive? I think you are right, it is just vindictive.

Yes, exactly that, although a can't specify the sex of the bereaved person. They can have the remaining 36 items as they mean nothing to the bereaved spouse.

@Viviennemary

Fairest way is this IMHO. Oldest person picks one item, then next person chooses then next. Then back to first person and do on till sll the items gone. However, in this case there are added complications because of the second marriage. I think it's cheeky of the second husband to want gifts the first husband gave. They should go to the daughters

You've got that wrong. The bereaved spouse wants around 5 items gifted by them to the deceased. They want none of the other gifts or belongings from the first marriage or any other valuables.

You have posted about this will many times so a lot of us already know the sex of the bereaved person plus a lot more.
I believe you do have a solicitor handling this too - are they not being helpful?

My relative is prepared to give away 10% of the claim for these 5 items. So it's very much a red line.

I know searching posts isn't the done thing, but have you posted before about bank accounts and spouse already contesting will as not being provided for? If so, hope all this is resolved soon as sounds v stressful! Can't imagine why someone would want a wedding ring from a wedding not to one of their parents. What happened to the ring from their dads marriage to their mum? Could that be driving this?

@MichelleScarn The daughters will get all of those things. Rings, valuable watches, everything. Money wise far more valuable. I can't go into the things they have already done and said, but its pure vindictiveness so not good all round.

Mediation is booked provisionally for mid march so hope it can all be settled then and everyone move on to the next part of their lives.

My vindictive sister took all my mother’s jewellery bar a few trinkets and put a lot of it on eBay. Bugger all the other 2 executors could do as it was before probate, that took weeks to come through. She also stripped the house of anything of value and flogged it.
Needless to say I have absolutely nothing to do with her now.

[quote inheritancetrack]@ChicCroissant The bereaved spouse has their own two daughters and a son so wants to leave the few items they are claiming to their own children, as the deceased was unfailingly generous to their own DD (stepdaughters) while excluding the bereaved spouses DCs throughout the marriage. There is no chance of an ongoing relationship after all that's gone on. [/quote]
It sounds a difficult relationship. But if the deceased didn't have anything to do with her children, would they actually want any of his possessions?

@ChicCroissant Sorry I'm not making it very clear as I don't want to reveal too much.

The deceased cared about their own daughters, and wanted almost everything to go to them.

The deceased excluded the DC of the surviving spouse during the marriage. They even wrote in the will that if the surviving spouse died first, everything, even their own parents belongings would go to the deceased's daughters.

So basically everthing to one set of stepchildren, and nothing (even their own parent's belongings) to the other set.

These vague homemade wills often cause issues. Not hard and not expensive to go to a solicitor and get it done properly with no ambiguity. I have given my nieces and great nieces all of the jewelry my exh gave me, after I offered it all to my dd who told me she did not want it because it was yellow gold.