Letter from fraud department, so stupid and scared

[Aldmi]

I got a letter from the councils fraud team yesterday saying they will be interviewing me under caution for fraud in relation to the self isolation £500 payment

I’m absolutely mortified, didn't sleep at all last night and keep throwing up with stress.

On the 17th of June, I received a message from my daughters after school care. That a member of staff had tested positive for Covid. And that they were closing the after-school care and notifying parents if their child had been a close contact.

They also told parents needed to come and collect their child asap.

Upon collection I was told by one of the workers who checked a list that my daughter was a close contact and would have to isolate.

A message was then posted through their messaging app confirming this.

I calculated this as her having to be off school until 25th June.

As a I am single parent with a court order in place as the resident parent. I must look after her as her mum has very little contact

I had heard of the £500 support and could apply for the support payment as I was staying at home with her and that I get universal credit with a child element. I applied for this the same night in a panic and included the requested documentation.

At the time I was very stressed, as my daughter kept constantly crying that she was going to get ill and be in hospital. Been away for work, due to be the only person in a busy department and very important appointment the next day. I also suffer from depression and anxiety which I am on medication for. I had presumed I would have a deduction from my salary.

Due to my ongoing anxiety and stress at work, by the time I was paid the next salary, I did not think to check the amount and had completely forgotten about the award. My salary had also changed over the previous months due to part time furlough.

I've spoken to a solicitor this morning, who says as its under caution I can get help from them for free. They are going to now contact the council to say I'm been represent and I will be doing the zoom meeting from their offices.

I feel so stupid and angry with myself for getting into this situation through nothing more then my on stupidity.

I work in a school, so if I am prosectured I will lose my job.

Has anyone heard of a case like this and what the likely outcome would be? going to court, prison etc

The interview isn't until next Friday and I can already feel to the point of a berakdown and its not even been 24 hours

@Buggritbuggrit

This is all rather muddled, OP. What, exactly, is it that you’ve done which might be deemed fraudulent?

From what I gather its claiming the £500 on the basis their income will decrease because of the time off work, but their income didn't reduce at all, and therefore claimed when they shouldn't have.

Sorry wasn't* a deceitful claim!! 🙈

Thank you all so much for the comments, im literally crying with relief that I won't lose my daughter.

I apologies for the muddled OP

To sum it up but I think most people have.

After school care told my daughter had to isolate.
I told work this and they said hopefully wont need remote support
I applied for the £500 thinking I wouldn't get paid in a panic

Looking back now I was paid fully so should not have had the £500 but with everything going on I did not think to check or thought about it since

Fraud
You may face prosecution if you have manipulated or falsified your position in order to obtain these payments, including failure to self-isolate which puts others at risk. Any payment made as a result of fraud may be recoverable from you, as may any grants that have been paid in error. Anyone identified as failing to self-isolate will be reported to the police.

You didn't think your work would pay you so you weren't deceptive.

Be prepared to pay the money back though.

Don't worry, it is going to be OK.,

Also to add I would happily pay it back, if they had sent a letter saying that I would have done it straight away

@SunnyLeaf

I didn’t even know a council could interview someone under caution, i though that was just police!

Yup, Local Authorities have certain powers that can be carried out by suitably trained council officers, in respect of 'protecting the public purse' where certain frauds are suspected.

These frauds have to relate to grants or benefits administered by the Local Authority - things like suspected Blue Badge misuse, housing grants and benefits, some covid payments, council tax benefits, and the new Household Support Scheme.

Residents are invited in to an interview room, cautioned, and interviewed. Normally there are two officers, and/or the interview is recorded. The resident(s) can be represented or accompanied. They can also refuse to attend, and await a possible formal summons.

At my Local Authority, alleged Blue badge misuse is a biggy, because people are more likely to report it.

There is no way they will prosecute if you agree to pay it back and explain you made a mistake. Court cases are costly and time-consuming - if you can pay back the £500 immediately, or agree a payment plan, then it will suit the DWP to just take it and give you a stern warning.

I can tell you similar happened to me with child benefit - my son was going through a very troubled period and I ended up with about £400 that I was not entitled to. Totally unintentionally but totally my fault as I just didn't have a good oversight of my finances. I agreed a payment plan of £50 a month, after 8 months it was done, no criminal record or anything like that.

I wouldn’t wait till next Friday OP; I’d send something now to say its been an error and you are happy to repay it. Just for your own mental health in the meantime.

Also to add I would happily pay it back, if they had sent a letter saying that I would have done it straight away
You do wonder why things have to seem so difficult with councils and Government right now?

Be honest, you didn't think you were getting paid by work and then you were.

Also, if you are worried can you not have a quick phone call chat th the solicitor prior tio the Zoom meeting?

The issue is likely to about your state of mind when you knew you received the payment and then got paid in full. Was this something a person in your position would not notice. Some people would and some wouldn’t. I think depending on how significant or insignificant an extra £500 is. The panic when you applied is not really relevant. You can say you assumed you wouldn’t be paid.

Do you get pay slips ?
Is the anyway they can demonstrate you received or viewed bank statements?

You will either have to stick to the story that you applied for it because you assumed you would lose income or the story that you applied for it not knowing what it was or if you were entitled. It can’t really be both of those.

They just want their money back OP, if you offer to pay it back there's no reason for them to take it further.

@Aldmi

Thank you all so much for the comments, im literally crying with relief that I won't lose my daughter.

I apologies for the muddled OP

To sum it up but I think most people have.

After school care told my daughter had to isolate.
I told work this and they said hopefully wont need remote support
I applied for the £500 thinking I wouldn't get paid in a panic

Looking back now I was paid fully so should not have had the £500 but with everything going on I did not think to check or thought about it since

Cripes no you won't lose your daughter.

Contact them and explain and offer to pay it back, either all at once if you can afford it or in installments, I'm sure they will be content with that.

Before you pay it back, speak to payroll and confirm that they didn't make a mistake in paying you for the week you weren't there. If you pay it back and then subsequently your Payroll realise they made an error and deduct the overpayment then you lose out (and the £500 grant is something you are legally entitled to). You need to find this out before the fraud interview.

You applied for the grant in good faith with no deception, fully believing that you were having to take unpaid time off work.

Either your employer decided to pay you in full anyway as a goodwill gesture. Or they overpaid you by accident. Either way it's this action by your employer that triggered this situation, not fraud. You need to establish which and either refund your employer or repay the grant, but you are not guilty of any crime.

You should also check to see whether they could have gotten evidence from your employer or anyone who works with you to say that you were aware you would be paid.

So any staff communications or anyone you may have asked. Sorry but they will have checked these things before or after they interview you. Don’t get caught in a lie.

Unfortunately LA fraud officers have way more time to investigate than plod. And they can be quite jobs worthy.

The letter is worded this way deliberately so you contact them and arrange repayment. Call them asap and get it sorted.

I'm not surprised you're in a state. The wording is pretty full on. You could get in touch with Citizen's Advice if you're still worried or if you think you may crumble during the meeting. They can advise you.

Can you ring and pay it back over the phone? You may not need the interview?

Say you've received the letter, checked through your bank acc and you can see where you've made the mistake - you got paid after all, so here's the money back. That might be all it takes?

@SinoohXaenaHide

Before you pay it back, speak to payroll and confirm that they didn't make a mistake in paying you for the week you weren't there. If you pay it back and then subsequently your Payroll realise they made an error and deduct the overpayment then you lose out (and the £500 grant is something you are legally entitled to). You need to find this out before the fraud interview.

You applied for the grant in good faith with no deception, fully believing that you were having to take unpaid time off work.

Either your employer decided to pay you in full anyway as a goodwill gesture. Or they overpaid you by accident. Either way it's this action by your employer that triggered this situation, not fraud. You need to establish which and either refund your employer or repay the grant, but you are not guilty of any crime.

This seems good advice. good luck

You will not go to prison. 100%. You'll probably just need to pay it back, perhaps in installments if it's going to leave you in hardship.

If it were myself in this position, I wouldn’t wait until next week as you’re clearly very stressed as it is and don’t need this hanging over you until then.
As a PP has mentioned, contact your payroll and make sure you weren’t paid your full wage in error. Once you know that, contact the council directly and explain the situation- you believed you wouldn’t be paid for the time you had to take off work and that meant you were eligible for the £500 payment. If you can’t make the payment in full, offer them a re-payment plan of what you can afford each month. Likely, they just want to reclaim the money and will be happy to do so now rather than wait and waste both you’re time with an interview.

The solicitor I spoke to this morning, said they would ring the councils fraud team and get details of the case. And then send me a letter with all the details.

Should I wait for this or just ring the council and say I've realized I made a mistake

@Aldmi

The solicitor I spoke to this morning, said they would ring the councils fraud team and get details of the case. And then send me a letter with all the details.

Should I wait for this or just ring the council and say I've realized I made a mistake

I personally would be proactive and call them, rather than waiting in a state of anxiety. They probably have loads of cases to get through and would likely be pleased to tick you off the list.

Don't worry it will be ok.

Good advice to check with your payroll.
This seems so heavy handed compared to HMRC who have explained how people can refund payments to them if, on review, they think they claimed grants etc in error

I'm not sure what interviewing you 'under caution' means, they can't arrest you-they're not the police.

Calm yourself down. The worst that will happen is that you will agree to pay the money back in installments over a period of time that suits your budget.

And remember - Admit NOTHING! Agree to pay any overpayment back and that's it.