Unsatisfactory reference and so job offer withdrawn.

[Bearnecessity]

Hi , I am so sad and angry. I secured a job offer on 20/10 and today I have found out because they received an unsatisfactory reference from my last employer the offer has been withdrawn. At my last job my line manager was sacked and is now being investigated for incompetence but this was nothing to do with me . I did my job very well but there were a lot of problems at the company and new people kept being brought in to turn things around I had an arguement with one after a very stressful year and she took a dislike to me. Technically my contract was not renewed but I keep getting offered jobs only to lose at reference stage despite having two other good references. I have now lost out on a permanent well-paid job....what can I do beyond go to HR, Citizen's Advice...it is so unfair.

@TableFlowerss

I thought the same, but my new employer did ask a bunch of subjective questions about me. I know because my old boss wanted me to fill in the form for him! Lovely, very supportive guy, but a bit lazy!

[quote EmpressoftheMundane]@TableFlowerss

I thought the same, but my new employer did ask a bunch of subjective questions about me. I know because my old boss wanted me to fill in the form for him! Lovely, very supportive guy, but a bit lazy![/quote]
I hope you were kind to yourself in your answers

Surprisingly when given a free hand one feels rather hesitant to go full ham!

I got the job, though.

I would suggest there was an attendance issue?

Ask the new job for a copy so you can clarify any issues.
Was there any phone follow up with the previous employer?

New job won't supply reference. There probably was phone follow up, I don't know for sure.

I am not sure what you mean Empress about sending a reference I don't have to HR.

I thought an employer wasn’t allowed to give you a bad reference

That is a myth that keeps being repeated on Mumsnet. Employers can give bad references provided they are accurate and not misleading. Many employers do stick to the basics (start and end dates, job title and similar) to make sure they don't have any problems but there is nothing wrong with giving a bad reference if it is justified.

Your reference might have been ok but they got concerned over the 6 weeks sickness for a lost tooth. How was your sickness record before that?

because I work in education under safeguarding rules they can and have sought them from my last employer.

Are you not in a union? If so you need to speak to them.

You do need to contact the head with a letter before action- there is no point looking for a way out of legal threats, that's the avenue for resolution for this sort of problem.

there is no point looking for a way out of legal threats, that's the avenue for resolution for this sort of problem

I'm afraid this is correct. If you don't at least threaten legal action they will continue to give a poor reference. If the threat doesn't stop them, the only way forward is to actually take legal action. If you aren't willing to go down this route you will continue to lose job offers.

I have sent a letter asking them to cease, desist and provide a copy of the ref, follow up calls, personnel file etc in order that I may launch a legal challenge. I have also contacted new employer requesting the same in writing and saying they have offered no explanation or my understanding of anything. I have also contacted CAB had a lengthy discussion in detail re old employer etc etc. They have said they will help me take it further if there is no copy of the ref forthcoming or resolution.

I did not take six weeks off with a lost tooth. I spent 3 and a half months in unbelievable pain while not receiving any dental treatment and having to take huge amounts of high powered drugs to get through which in turn made me very ill because I was born two months early with an under-developed stomach and so I cannot tolerate tablets at all. I was treated eventually as a medical emergency.

I have not slept all night I am at my wits end about it all but thank you all who have come on here to help.

Good luck op, that all sounds sensible, keep us updated.

Have you actually told the new employer that the people providing your references are being investigated for workplace bullying against you?
I think you also need to remind your old head teacher that the people being allowed to provide references are currently under investigation for workplace bullying and point out that as the head teacher, she/he is allowing them to continue their campaign against you now that you are seeking employment elsewhere.

The people providing the ref are not being investigated for bullying against me. My old line manager has been suspended and is being investigated for multiple transgressions under her tenure. One Head is off long term sick, as is Deputy Head and member of SLT, it is the DH and SLT who are alleging bullying/incompetence against each other. My ref will have come from the Interim Head or Exec Head brought in to deal with this carnage.

I was only there 18 months I worked under 5 different Heads in that time and it was only the last one that I seem to be suffering under. The school is being investigated all over the show , well over 30 + staff turnover while I was there in a school with less than 70 students. Staff are still leaving in droves now....I have been caught up in this...

Tell them that then. It cant hurt you anymore than the reference already has.

The school sounds like it must have an awful reputation, hopefully that will go some way to explain your situation to the potential employer? (Side note, poor pupils too!)

If you haven’t signed a contract yet they can just withdraw the job for absolutely any reason (or no reason) and there’s nothing you can do.

@PucePanther I'm not sure if that is correct? if an offer is made verbally then also constitutes a contract of employment. There has to be justification for withdrawing a contract of employment. They can't just turn around and say "sorry but no thanks"

OP, I would write to your old HR department requesting a Subject Access Request. A copy of the reference should be on your file but the name of the person who gave you the reference may be redacted. It will allow you to see exactly what the reference said though.

Amongst those who know it does have a poor reputation. I do feel sorry for the long suffering kids and parents...so many truly fantastic teachers and TA's who have left....

I know Puce Panther...

Don't bend I had both a verbal and written(email) confirmation of the offer and I put in a SAR's request this morning although I have not received a confirmation of receipt email that I requested.

When people want to warn you that a potential employee may not be up to the job they are applying for, they do so over the phone in my experience, not in a formal reference

There has to be justification for withdrawing a contract of employment. They can't just turn around and say "sorry but no thanks"

They can make the offer conditional on references. Then, if they are unhappy with any of the references, they can say no. They don't have to state reasons.

Even if an offer was unconditional, any damages the employee would receive for a withdrawn offer would be minimal unless they could show discrimination.

I would write to your old HR department requesting a Subject Access Request

As has already been covered up thread, if a reference is confidential it does not have to be disclosed in response to an SAR.

@Bearnecessity -You are doing the right thing. Good luck.

[quote DontBendYourAccrylicNail]@PucePanther I'm not sure if that is correct? if an offer is made verbally then also constitutes a contract of employment. There has to be justification for withdrawing a contract of employment. They can't just turn around and say "sorry but no thanks"

OP, I would write to your old HR department requesting a Subject Access Request. A copy of the reference should be on your file but the name of the person who gave you the reference may be redacted. It will allow you to see exactly what the reference said though.

[/quote]
I'm afraid PucePanther/DontBend, they basically can withdraw the offer, verbal or in writing, before or after the contract is signed. They can even say 'thanks but no thanks' once you've started the job, and the most they would have to do would be to pay your contractual notice period which could be as little as 1 weeks' pay.

Unless you can show that the reason for the new employer withdrawing the offer/arbitrarily sacking you was due to a protected characteristic such as race etc., you have next to no comeback against your new employer, even if it is grossly and completely unfair. That's the way employment law works in this country, you are very vulnerable indeed when changing jobs and really for the first 2 years of your employment. OP may have a claim against her old employer for defamation and subsequent financial loss if she can show she lost her job due to the false and misleading information but she really has no claim at all against the new employer, even if they know the information was false and decide to withdraw the offer anyway...

@joystir59

When people want to warn you that a potential employee may not be up to the job they are applying for, they do so over the phone in my experience, not in a formal reference

I mean this politely, but why is yourexperience relevant, it’s clearly not the ops experience?

And most job offers are made on condition of receiving satisfactory references.

Op, you’re doing right, you just need to find out if what they are writing in your reference is accurate or not.

As you had an argument with the head, your contract not renewed and considerable time off due to ill health, it may be that is all they needed to say, these would be factual, but also considered unsatisfactory by any new employer.

*I did not take six weeks off with a lost tooth. I spent 3 and a half months in unbelievable pain while not receiving any dental treatment and having to take huge amounts of high powered drugs to get through which in turn made me very ill because I was born two months early with an under-developed stomach and so I cannot tolerate tablets at all. I was treated eventually as a medical emergency"
But the new employer wouldn't know that u less you disclosed it during your interview.

Confirming you were off for 6 weeks for teeth issues is it lying and they are entitled to share that information and that might have indeed put them off, especially if you had more time off at other times.

Very strange don't disturb me...I have not lied I explained what I'd said to them and when upthread. I did not have any other time off.