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Original poster

New neighbours building on shared right of way: advice / spine needed.

30 replies

QuizteamBleakley · 28/07/2014 21:05

Our new neighbours moved in 4 months ago & seemed nice enough, kept themselves to themselves, said hello etc. Eight weeks ago we get a planning application notice that they want to build a two storey 'garage' on the shared right of way (driveway that is used by the row of 4 cottages). I tried to contact them to chat about it but no response so we objected as we park at the back of our house and - obviously - need to use the shared driveway.

We've just looked on the local council website and seen - to our amazement - that permission has been granted. I'm gobsmacked: I'm sitting here with all the legal docs in my hand and the thing will be built completely on a shared right of way. I'm (clearly) no legal expert but I know that I need to fight this so can anyone help? What statute do I need to quote? Can I complain / appeal to the council? Any ideas of next steps?
TYIA Smile

OP posts:
AnneElliott · 28/07/2014 21:11

If they don't own all of the land (and obviously they don't if it is a shared right of way) then they should have signed the planning certificate to that effect.

Call the planners tomorrow and talk it through as if they have signed the wrong certificate indicating they own all the land then the permission may be invalid.

You should probably talk to them thoughGrin

NatashaBee · 28/07/2014 21:14

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
QuizteamBleakley · 28/07/2014 21:26

@NatashaBee - we emailed AND sent a hard copy, another neighbour hand-delivered his letter and another chappy emailed so we really thought we'd covered all the bases.

I just looked at the application (as per AnneElliott's advice) and the naughty builder has not only made no mention of shared rights of way in the ownership certificate part, he's also submitted a drawing that shows that R.O.W. falling far short of where is actually does (and we all have teh original drawings to back this up.)

I'm feeling like Ally McBeel now!

OP posts:
steppemum · 28/07/2014 22:14

I think you really need to act quickly. Phone the planning office tomorrow. You need to make sure the neighbours know before they start building.

Have you spoken to the neighbours? I wonder if they think you are all using 'their' land, rather than understanding it is shared RoW?

I would ask the planning officer if there is some way of freezing the permission while it is investigated.

FiloFunky · 28/07/2014 22:24

Does the ROW only allow you foot access on the docs?

Waxlyrically · 28/07/2014 22:28

You need to speak to a solicitor rather than the planning dept. Planning permission doesn't give you any right to build on land you don't own and/or control. Anyone can apply for planning permission on any land but they can't then implement the permission even if it's granted if it's not their own land.

tryingtocatchthewind · 28/07/2014 22:40

Boxes, sign one if you own it and you sign the other to say you don't own it and have notified those who do. You can check which certificate they signed but it still doesn't mean that they won't still get PP

tryingtocatchthewind · 28/07/2014 22:43

Argh bugger it deleted the first half of my message.

What I said was 'wax' is right you can get planning permission on any land regardless of whether you own it. It's then a civil matter to get permission from the owner.

I could ask, and get, planning permission to paint Buckingham palace red but I'd still have to ask the queen for permission separately.

However what previous posters have said about certificates is correct. On the planning application from their are two boxes......

Stopmithering · 28/07/2014 23:31

What wax said.
See solicitor who is used to dealing with such issues.
Also, if your drawings and neighbours drawings don't match, apply to the land registry for definitive plan of where registered boundaries lie.

Bilberry · 28/07/2014 23:40

Maybe the neighbour does own the land? Having a ROW is a seperate issue from ownership. What does your ROW consist of? We used to own the land half our neighbours drive was on - we could have resurfaced it if we wanted but we still had to allow our neighbours to access their garage with their car so couldn't build on it even with planning permission. I think you need to speak to a solicitor quick - I suspect if need be they could get the court to stop the build.

Original poster
QuizteamBleakley · 29/07/2014 09:12

Thanks everyone - I'm on hold to the planning office right now. I'll update each step. Mostly, I am listening to Greensleeves!

OP posts:
Original poster
QuizteamBleakley · 29/07/2014 10:16

Right, the planning office state that the land is his, but is subject to covenants allowing ROW. Ours states: "...included in the sale a right of way in common with the owners & occupiers of [OTHER PROPERTIES] over the driveway of lot 1...."
The planning office said it's a civil matter now, they will not intervene and will not discuss matters further.
Guess I'll Google sme property law firms next! Thanks all for help & advice.

OP posts:
PigletJohn · 29/07/2014 10:50

You can apply for planning permission on land that you do not own. People often do that and then decide to buy the land. So the planning permission is I think not the issue. If you wanted to, you could apply for planning permission to demolish your neighbour's home and put up a bingo hall.

You can order copies of "deeds" and plans off the Land Registry website (only go to the .gov.uk site, not to any intermediary agent who will fleece you)

Order them for your own home, and the neighbours who want to build, and any other affected neighbours. You can order them for any address, you don't have to own it.

Bilberry · 29/07/2014 12:57

Quiz it sounds like he owns the land and you just have a ROW over it. (If you owned it you wouldn't need a ROW as it would be yours). The planners are right, this is a civil matter and you need a solicitor to enforce your ROW.

Timeisawastin · 29/07/2014 15:43

I think you (all the affected neighbours) need a solicitor to apply to court for an injunction to prevent building from starting.

atticusclaw · 29/07/2014 15:48

So it is actually their land.

We own a very long driveway. Its entirely ours. But we have to give the neighbours access to pass and repass with or without a vehicle over a 15ft strip. The location of the strip isn't identified in any great detail on the plan so long as they can get from A to B and so in theory we could shift it across a bit from where it is now.

Do you still have access with the new building where it is planned to be? If so then they are not actually in breach of covenant.

atticusclaw · 29/07/2014 15:51

Does your right of way specify that you can take vehicles across. If not you might find that you only have the right to pass on foot which of course would mean a much narrower strip.

Original poster
QuizteamBleakley · 29/07/2014 18:12

Thanks all. I'm poring over the deeds & covenants... "There is included in the sale a right of way (but not a right to park) in common with the owners & occupiers of numbers 2 and 3 over the driveway..." I'm taking this as we have a right of way over his land (the driveway) but can't park on his land (fair enough) but we won't be able to get a bicycle to our garage, much less a car if the build goes ahead!

I am not a NIMBY and like to support & get on with our neighbours but all I can see are two options: bend over and take it (thereby losing the function of our garage) or try to fund an expensive legal battle. Sorry for bleating, but I started the day feeling like it was simply a case of righting a wrong but I'm starting to realise that we're buggered.
Thanks everyone for your help & advice. I'll get some kip and look again in the morning; maybe pop to CAB.

OP posts:
Timeisawastin · 29/07/2014 19:01

I don't think you actually have too much to worry about, well-documented rights of way are very powerful in law and nigh on impossible to ignore legally. If you have a mortgage please get in touch with your borrower and tell them what's happening as the potential loss of a right of way will affect the valueyour/their asset and might find they will underwrite the legal side of it.

For more informed advice, register and ask the question this site...
www.gardenlaw.co.uk/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=8

Timeisawastin · 29/07/2014 19:03

value of

Bilberry · 29/07/2014 19:22

Your household insurance might also include legal cover. It sounds fairly straightforward so shouldn't be too expensive. Have you talked to 2 and 3? You may be able to share costs.

sanfairyanne · 29/07/2014 19:27

have you spoken to the neighbours yet? might be easily solved yet

Original poster
QuizteamBleakley · 29/07/2014 23:16

Hi all. Have tried & tried to speak to neighbour; tonight have resorted to private messaging across social media. A good sleep and a fresh look in the morning should (please) help. Thanks all.

OP posts:
mipmop · 29/07/2014 23:41

Can you post images showing the differences between your drawings of the ROW and the ones submitted by the builder? Maybe a rough sketch if you don't want to post the real ones. It might trigger some other ideas from people on this thread.

Also, a two storey garage? Intrigue!

steppemum · 30/07/2014 07:19

I think you might find that a well worded legal letter stops this in its tracks. I cannot imagine they would try and continue, because a legal battle with neighbours would affect the value of their house too.