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Legal matters

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counterclaim (Tenant)

66 replies

xabiuol · 07/06/2013 20:12

Does any one have any experience of making a counterclaim?

We have just received an N5 (Claim form for possession of property) from our LL. We are putting in a defense as we think that the LL has failed to serve a correct S21 notice.

We also want to make a counterclaim for non-payment of our deposit into a deposit scheme but cannot find any info about how we go about doing this and which forms to fill in etc. I know this is a fairly specialist area of law but if anyone has had experience of doing this I would be grateful for any tips! Smile

OP posts:
CatherineofMumbles · 10/06/2013 10:00

Was going to post some helpful advice on here, but OP is being far too arsey and unpleasant so not going to bother.
Sympathies to the LL!

Clam Ditto!

Queen0fFeckingEverything · 10/06/2013 10:07

I actually don't think the OP started the 'being arsey'

As someone else has said - imagine this was a post about possible unfair dismissal, where OP was being fired without due process being followed. Would the advice then be to leave as you'd end up leaving anyway?

The first response was IMO pretty arsey and unhelpful and I'm not surprised the OP got annoyed tbh.

xabiuol · 10/06/2013 10:08

"Amateur Landlords are a blight on UK society"

I expect you are right there Changeasgoodas but unfortunately this LL appears to be a professional (although not a very professional professional!). She owns at least 2 HMOs (that we know of) (6 flats in each). It was supposed to be a temporary solution whilst we sold one house and bought our next place (but the market where we are looking is incredibly slow and it has taken rather longer than we first imagined). This is my first renting experience and I have to say I now really sympathize with anyone who has no choice than to live like this permanently.

In the year we have been here we have been pressured not to go on the electoral role. We have been told that if we wished to vote we should use LL voting ballots. LL would only accept cash (tax implications?). When we first came here we noticed that the smoke alarms were not connected and we contacted LL to repair/switch them on (in an HMO in an old Victorian house with 6 flats and 6 kitchens :/ and I'm a worrier). She said no. So we asked the Council and they said that because house was HMO fire regs are mandatory. When LL found out we had spoken to the Council she started phoning me demanding to know what I had said, sending me texts telling me that it was outrageous, that I had no right to speak to the council and that I was not allowed anyone including the council or the police into the house. She then evicted the downstairs tenants (poor them, family with small child), moved into the flat they had lived in and started pretending that she was a live-in-landlord, that she had always lived there and that we were "lodgers" and she told the council that we "shared her cooking facilities"! She also gave us notice (multiple times). This was one year ago July 2012. We went to court in December and the Judge told her that her claim was a complete mess and that none of the 5 notices that she had given us to date were correct! He told her to go away, get legal advice and reissue a ?very carefully worded claim?.

At first it was very stressful and personally I would have moved out immediately when it first kicked off, but DH is not one to be bullied and said he had no intention of running away when we had done absolutely nothing wrong, unless it was on our own terms. So here we still are. Not stressful any more as we will only communicate with LL in writing (which we always look forward to LLs letters as they add to our pile of evidence that she is barking mad) and we have now told her that she can either accept a cheque through the post or she can go without.

Happily we have now found our home, which we are in the process of buying, and we need the extra time so we don't have the expense of moving and further "temporary" accommodation. (So once again, yes I know that we will have to move eventually, but that was not why I posted so it is not very helpful to keep pointing this out is it?)

So go ahead and sympathize with the LL if you wish. I really don't care if you think I am being unreasonable.

But thanks again to all those who have offered kind and good advice Flowers

OP posts:
LaurieFairyCake · 10/06/2013 10:21

You're not being in any way unreasonable - your landlord is an exceptional cunt and I wish you lots of luck with making her live up to her legal responsibilities

Smile
MrsBucketxx · 10/06/2013 10:37

how long is the purchase of your new home gping to take, surely she would allow a six week grace or the time the conveyancing took?

id be out of there though even if it is a mare, she doesn't sound like a decent person tbh.

giantpenguinmonster · 10/06/2013 10:42

Landlords have a duty to act within the law and I for one am glad the OP is standing up to this unprofessional one. The reason some get away with absolutely shitty illegal behaviour is because people just move- often at great expense and inconvenience. It's not a balanced relationship when the landlord is giving a reference for your next property.

I say that as a landlord and a recent tenant!

bigkidsdidit · 10/06/2013 10:45

We do need some system where the tenant gives the landlord / agent a reference too, don't we

Branleuse · 10/06/2013 10:57

I feel sorry for you. its hideous having a nightmare landlord that will take your money to pay their mortgage but accepts no responsibility for the upkeep of the place. I've had some absolutely shocking landlords over the years. Thankfully my landlord now is an absolute diamond.

I've heard good things about shelter. I think youre doing the right thing. giving yourself some time and breathing space that you're entitled to and hopefully making sure he isnt as much of a shit to his next unfortunate tenants.

NameThatTuna · 10/06/2013 11:23

My sympathies also OP. I've recently had a nightmare with my Landlady over dodgy repairs/failing to carry out repairs. One phone call resulted in her screaming at us to get out. Fucking witch!

I second Shelter. CAB were not very good tbh.

Unfortunately I also found most people, when I told them what happened, just told me to move. It annoyed me because I would be the one who has to pay to move, find the bond and rent up front before getting deposit back. It's a lot of money I don't have at the moment.

Gets on my tits that a LL can fail to maintain/repair the property but demand rent or eviction when it suits them, while the tenant, who has paid rent on time and kept the property clean and tidy, gets the boot for reporting something needs repairing.

Sorry I have no advice really, just wanted to say I hope you nail the bitch! Smile

PatPig · 10/06/2013 11:26

Wow, so many unhelpful people in this thread.
You might find a better response here:

www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?showforum=36

Ultimately I believe that even if they do serve valid notice, then it will take several months to evict you following that if you choose to play hardball.

xabiuol · 10/06/2013 11:50

"Unfortunately I also found most people, when I told them what happened, just told me to move. It annoyed me because I would be the one who has to pay to move"

Exactly NameThatTuna we worked out that it would cost approx £500 to move. That's 2 months house savings down the pan just because we made the mistake of standing up for ourselves.

I have to say though I feel that I have learned a valuable lesson. I am 42 years old and I have owned my own home since I was 26 years old. I could never have imagined how hideous renting could be and I consider myself incredibly lucky that I am won't be stuck renting indefinitely. I do know there are many decent LLs out there and we have just been unlucky but I now firmly believe that the LL world (and esp HMOs) need a bit of an overhaul esp with more and more people being forced into living in accommodation like this.

Ultimately we are hoping that our house sale goes through before the court case happens. Waiting on the survey as I post! Smile fingers crossed!

Thanks all for kind words Flowers and LaurieFairyCake ShockGrin

OP posts:
MousyMouse · 10/06/2013 18:29

good luck!

iheartdusty · 11/06/2013 20:54

OP beware of one thing - you can't claim the 3 x deposit payment after the tenancy has ended. So if you are going to make a claim, issue it now. It doesn't matter if the tenancy ends in between the date when you make the claim, and before the court can decide it, but at the date you make the claim, you must still be a tenant.

BUT it is true that the Landlord can just whip it into a protected scheme after you have made your claim and before the date of the trial, and you won't then get the 3 x deposit.

so is it worth it?

all of this is separate from the fact that, as you know, a valid s21 notice can't be given whilst the deposit is unprotected, and you have a right to insist that correct procedures are used.

SuedeEffectPochette · 11/06/2013 22:12

iheartdusty you can now claim 1-3 times deposit once tenancy has ended. Law changed last April. It's not true that the landlord can just whip it into a scheme now and be off the hook. So yes, it is worth it. OP - they can't serve a s21 if they didn't put deposit in a scheme until

  1. A court gives you 1-3 times the deposit as penalty.
  2. You agree (not likely)
  3. they repay the deposit to you. No caselaw yet on whether you can refuse to accept it but worth trying that.
The new rules (since April last year) give tenants a kind of security of tenure in my view. Not yet trickled down to caselaw yet but you hold the card IMO. Stay put. Better still see Shelter or a solicitor. There is a good landlordlaw website worth a look.
iheartdusty · 12/06/2013 13:17

suedeffectpochette you are absolutely right. I should have checked.

RenterNomad · 13/06/2013 17:57

Blimey, I would have thought a backwater like Legal Matters would have attracted an overall better and more constructive response! This isn't chat or AIBU, where frothing and ignorance are somehow Hmm acceptable.

As for " if you want the right to stay in your home for as long as you wish buy a home, SHAME ON YOU!

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