Help regarding a very possible child access case - v long sorry!

[TakingTimeOut]

I have DT who turn 13 this year. While pregnant with them the ex upped and left - leaving a note (no conversation or anything) saying sorry but he wasn't ready to be a dad. The DTs have contact with his parents - they're pretty good. Ex apparently moved to Ireland and has never asked about or had any contact with the twins - until recently. His parents told me he'd married, had a baby and wanted to meet the twins this summer. I've been up in the air about this but put my own feelings aside and agreed to it - if it's what the children wanted. When discussed one minute they want to and one minute they don't. I passed my number on to his parents to contact the twins via phone conversation first so I could gage how serious he was (past alcoholic, weed smoking fuckwit) and to go slowly-slowly.

When he phoned I tried being civil (believe me that was hard) I explained contact would be going at the twins pace, via phone first, leading up to a meeting this summer - if that's what they wanted - but supervised, then in a hope of unsupervised given time. I was met with a hurl of abuse of how I wasn't telling him what contact he could have with his children - certainly not supervised and if that's how I wanted to play it then to expect a solicitors letter.

So he seemed to back down and had one conversation with DT1 which ended up in him calling her a spoilt bitch who had no respect for her elders because she didn't call him dad but by his first name. Then went off in to a tirade of how she didn't know the background and had no right to judge. How I was a poisonous bitch because I'd poisoned their minds when he's trying to make amends.

So after a long background I'm wondering where do I stand if it does go to court. Is what I've offered unreasonable? I doubt DT1 will want anything to do with him now - and I don't blame her. Would she be forced to? His parents have stated that he will take it to court as his new baby deserves to know siblings. All we've seemed to have is abuse each time he's contacted. Personally I'd prefer if he never contacted again. I've claimed no CSA off him (despite being told to recently) as I don't want anything off him. We've got by fine without his input.

Bit puzzled as to why DT! didn't call him dad when he obviously is?

He isn't their dad. He is, at the moment, simply their biological father. There is a large difference between the two.

So by your logic Red, adopted people should when meeting their birth parents for the first time in 18+ years automatically started calling them mum/dad?

This man isn't at the moment dad other than he supplied some fluid. He will, like it or not, have to show his children respect to earn that title. He isn't going to gain this by shouting and name calling. He has to grow up and realise that this is going to take time and regardless of what he wants it is about his twins. If the op has been bad mouthing him off, which not all parents do this btw, then all he is doing is showing them that actually it's all correct.

They have a right to a positive relationship with both parents if it has a positive impact on their welfare - it doesn't sound like contact with the long time absent NRP is having that impact so far but then some people seem very happy with conflict and don't seem to understand the damaging effects it has.

A little bit of sperm doesn't make a parent! Using your views, Helen, step parents or adoptive parents have less rights than biological parents who don't see their children.

Every relationship takes time and effort. Just because he shares a bit of DNA with them this doesn't mean he's exempt from taking the time and making the effort to get to know them. These poor children would be terrified if they were sent to see someone they don't know after he's shouted and sworn at them down the phone. He's not going to see it this way because the whole world revolves around him and his needs.

You have some very odd views on this, Helen. Try and see this from the child's perspective.

No, because they have had someone else to call mum & dad. Also, if you give your child up for adoption you are making a legal decision that you are giving them up to someone else. And legally, yes, step parents do have less "rights" than biological parents.

I AM seeing it from the child's perspective, you would be very surprised at he difference between what parents tell one parent & what they feel.

No, I'm puzzled as to why Op isn't calling him dad when she is speaking about them.

Sorry, speaking about him to the children.

Because he isn't their dad. He provided the sperm 13 years ago and is their biological father. He isn't their dad - yet.
After 13 years of not giving a toss, he's going to have to earn that title with hard work, yet the phone call is a very bad start on his behalf.
OP, you are going about it the right way, imo.

Unless I'm missing something, the twins have never ever met him. He left before they were born and has never shown the slightest interest in them until now. Why on earth would they call him "dad"?

OP doesn't need to badmouth him to them; they are quite capable of noticing that he's never written, called or visited. And, now, of noticing that he shouted at DT1 and called her a bitch. He's doing a far better job of badmouthing himself than the OP could ever do.

When someone abandons a pregnant partner and doesn't contact their children for 13 years surely they are making a decision too? What sort of message does this give to the children?

The NRP in this occasion has no rights. The children, on the other hand, have every right to see the NRP and every right not to. A 13 year old is more than able to decide and more than able to decide what they call the NRP. If he's never behaved like their 'dad' then they shouldn't call him this.

And, again, why would she call him "dad"? He left before they were born saying specifically that he didn't want to be a dad. He's never met them. He'd never even spoken to them until recently. "Dad" isn't a legal description, it's about the role someone plays in your life.

No, I'm puzzled as to why Op isn't calling him dad when she is speaking about them

Because he isn't their dad. He is simply their biological father.

I think someone's on the wind up. No-one could totally ignore someone calling a 13 year old a bitch, let alone the girl's biological father the first time they've ever talked to them, to argue over what the child's mother refers to them as.

A man has a perfect right to abandon his children before birth, have contact with them for over a decade and never pay a penny towards their care.

He is still an equal parent to the woman who bore them, who fed and sheltered them and who raised them.

If and when he decides to show up everyone should be delighted and grateful and he should be treated in just the same way as the mugs men who bother sticking around to raise their own children.

RedHelen, you keep saying children lie to RP regarding whether they want to see their NRP.

Does this mean, you perosnally pack off screaming crying pleading child(ren) to contact on regular basis & utterly disregard their coherent articulate reasons as to why they fear the NRP?

OP ignore ReHelen, the posture clearly has their own agenda.

Poster even

No it doesn't at all Fuzzy wuzzy. My ex didn't see his ds for a year due to worrying about what OW thought BUT I certainly don't put obstacles in the way!The OP SHOULD have said to the father - how do you think we should do this rather than dictating ( I know she said explain but doubt that is how he'd see it) As i have said before, I know lots of children of divorced kids & it DOES matter to them that they see both parents, even ones that fall way short of perfect! I totally get the OP's perspective as a single Mum myself BUT tbh that's irrelevant.

OP is facilitating contact, the ex wants it his way only.

if anyone is dictating contact or actually making it difficult to form a relationship with the chidlren its the ex.

You don't walk into someone's life after never having set eyes on them and tell them what they call you, how often and where they see you and swear at them.

The ex is not willing to compromise or see it form the childs view point.

The ex is the one who walked out of the chidlrens lives and did not look back for the past 13 years, the ex is the one therefore who has to do all the leg work and building of relationship, the ex should be bending over backwards to endear himeself to the children.

The OP is amazing in my opinion in that she maintained contact with the ex's family and has maintained ties for the sake of her chidlren with her ex in-laws.

I don't think the OP is putting obstacles in the way, Helen. She isn't making unreasonable demands, she's just asking that the NRP makes the effort to get to know their dc before he meets them unsupervised. You're right, there is always another side to the coin and we're not aware of all of the facts but most of the threads on here are like that. I agree totally with what she's doing as I'm in the same situation myself.

Red I have told my children all about their dad (well from what I knew - obviously not what he's been up to the past 13 years as I don't know.). His parents have also been there to fill in gaps if needed. At the minute he is their father by as far as I'm concerned donation. He left, didn't want to know and now expects to come back with waiting open arms. He has a lot of explaining to do to my children. They have a step parent in their lives who for all intent and purposes of the meaning is their dad. They don't call him dad and I don't expect them to. But he has done a bloody lot more than their own has done. He has supported them financially, taken them on days out, comforted them when upset, looked after them when ill and a whole lot more.

I have never badmouthed him to them - they know the facts. They're not stupid and they have their own minds. If he earns they're respect and is willing to work at it with them - who knows? Maybe they will. He has a lot of growing up to do. Please explain to me how it's perfectly fine for him to verbally abuse his daughter?

Maybe I should buy them a father's day card to give to him too?? .

Do you have any idea how confused my children are - how it is actually affecting them? How every question is asked with a why?? I'm having to look at professional guidance to help them deal with it. I suppose I'm in the wrong for doing that too?

I can tell them from my side of what I know but I can't answer whys. Why he left and hasn't ever wanted to know until now. Why he didn't want to be a dad to them but is playing doting dad to their sibling. That should be his place - but he's too selfish for that.

Op I would just completely ignore redhelen - clearly on the wind up (and probably frankly not even a woman). Don't let this person derail your thread. You've done everything right, and no court is going to force 13 year olds to have contact with a person they have never met, and who called one of them a spoilt bitch the only time they have conversed.

"My ex didn't see his ds for a year"

With respect, that's not really in the same league as an ex who stated before his children were even born that he didn't want to be a dad and never saw or spoke to them from that point until they were already teenagers.

It's great that you went out of your way to protect your ex's relationship with your children even when he went flaky and no-contact for a year. But they had a relationship in the first place. This father didn't, and he went no-contact for thirteen years . There wasn't a relationship there for the OP to protect.

Let him take it to court ...and get some legal advice.
If the position is as you have stated, the judge will absolutely take the childrens views into account and would be highly unlikely to force immediate un-supervised access with what amounts to a complete stranger.

The best route would perhaps be to allow contact at his parents home, as the children already know their grandparents well.

Redhelen are You actually for real ?.

No ds had no relationship because I was pg when he got with OW. Certainly not a wind up. I just think that the initial conversation could have been handled better in retrospect. And in no way am I sticking up for the Dad but I do believe the children do want some sort of relationship with him else why do so many adopted children find their birth parents? And I am still a bit confused about why they don't call him Dad unless there is a new partner for OP who they do?