Daughter been charged with Theft breached of trust, any ideas on likely outcome please?

[charliebird1979]

Ok this is really hard for me but here goes.

My daughter has been charged with theft breach of trust. She is a single mum currently seriously struggling financially. She is living with her 2 year old son in temporary housing and was facing homelessness. I'm not saying that this is an excuse, i'm just trying to give you all the facts.

She stole £800 in cash and around a £1000 worth of jewellery from her grandmother (my mother). She took the jewellery because she knew that her grandmother would be able to claim it on the insurance. She used the money to pay off housing debt in order to keep a roof over her and her son's head.

She had previously gone to her grandmother and begged her for help but her grandmother refused despite being extremely well off. My daughter then tried to obtain loans before she took the money and jewellery out of desperation.

I have begged my mother to drop the charges but she is refusing to and my daughter is now terrified of what sentences she might face and whether she will lose her little boy.

My daughter has no previous convictions at all, infact she has been the victim of serious crime. She works with disabled children for a living and this recent incident was completely out of character and done out of sheer desperation.

I am so torn out of love for her and my mother. Whilst my daughter did something terribly wrong, I also blame my mother for not helping her. I can understand why my daughter did what she did because I believe most of us would do anything to keep a roof over our children's heads.

Does anyone know how long she is likely to go to prison for? Will she lose her child?

Thank you in advance

[charliebird1979]

I am trying to help her! Just because I can't look after her son doesn't mean that i'm not trying to help. I've said thank you to people offering advice. Some posts have given me lost of information on how to prepare her etc.

As for social services I just don't trust them and how traumatising will that be for her son to lose his mummy for all that time?! He might not even remember her?! Plus I don't think that she will survive any length of time away from him. He is her life.

[charliebird1979]

She won't be allowed to have her son in prison as he is nearly three.

[olgaga]

I've just read that she has legal advice. Your question re the sentencing can't be answered I'm afraid. The court will take everything into account and I think it's unlikely to get a custodial sentence for a first offence.

[NorthernLurker]

OP stop hand wringing about social services. Pretty clear they could do a better job of taking care of your grandchild and your daughter than you wish to do. Have you expressed the lack of family support to her solicitor? Are they going to use that?

[charliebird1979]

I know stealing is stealing and so does my daughter. When her grandmother said money was missing my daughter immediately said it was her and then she admitted to taking the jewellery too. She even went to the police station voluntarily. I'm not dressing it up, I was just trying to give a#everyone the facts as I think that shows my daughter's character and I believe character is taken into account in legal matters?

[ReallyTired]

"As for social services I just don't trust them and how traumatising will that be for her son to lose his mummy for all that time?! He might not even remember her?"

She is not facing a life sentence. The chances is that she would be out before 3 months. I imagine that social services would make sure that her son visits regularly.

" Plus I don't think that she will survive any length of time away from him. He is her life."

Your expectations of your daughter are pretty low. I am sure that she will survive the seperation if she is sent to jail and her son is put in care. Women in her situation don't always collapse mentally.

[CouthySaysEatChoccyEggs]

I can't castigate the OP for taking money off her daughter for water, electric and gas, and for the additional council tax - if the OP is struggling to cover those bills for one, then no way would she be able to cover those bills for three. It's just not do-able.

Not everybody has that extra cash, you know. I certainly wouldn't, in the OP's situation.

However...there would be NO WAY in this situation that I would ask my DD and her young son to leave just because he wasn't sleeping well! I DO feel that was at best unfair, and at worst selfish.

If you knew your DD hasn't had any experience with paying bills etc, and budgeting, then why the hell didn't you help her to learn?!

I'm currently teaching my 11yo about it, and am soon to start teaching my 15yo (yes, that seems about face, but my DD has SN's, and her Maths skills weren't up to even simple budgets until very recently, my 11yo has far more understanding mathematically than she does, and it's likely that my 11yo will leave home before my 15yo does!)

Surely it is just another life skill that you teach your DC's, along with things like potty training and telling the time?!

[WTFisABooyhoo]

it actually sounds like this could be the best thing for her and her son. at least now she is known to the different authorities she stands a better chance of getting good support and advice in how to get her life back on track instead of her struggling along with no family support whatsoever getting deeper and deeper into debt. as bad as it might feel to be reported by her own grandmother, i think granny might have done her a favour here in teh long term.

[charliebird1979]

olgaga thank you for the numbers.

Northern Regarding lack of family support, solicitor says her ex's parents will likely get temporary custody of her son and then they can apply for full custody. Her ex's parents have told her that they intend to try to take him away from her and social services will support them. I have made statements stating that I was not able to support her and that I evicted her.

[charliebird1979]

WTF You think her gran did the best thing?! An action that means a mother will lose her son and a little boy will lose his mummy.

3 months is a long time for a child to be away from its mother and how much pain will visit cause him when he sees his mummy only to be taken away from her again and again?

And you really think social services are just going to hand him back after 3 months away from his mum? No but then the foster carers or her ex's parents will insist on keeping him.

[NorthernLurker]

Foster carers can't 'insist' on anything. I very much doubt that IF your daughter is given a short sentence Social services would feel placing the child with grandparents he (I assume) doesn't know, would be preferable to a short local foster care placement.

In any case you've been told repeatedly a custodial sentence isn't likely. Why are you harping on this aspect? Guilty conscience?

[dickiedavisthunderthighs]

I think the whole point of you posting is that you know this wouldn't have happened had you cared for them properly, and you're now looking for someone to reassure you that it will all be ok, rather than actually doing anything to make it ok. I feel very sad for your daughter and grandson.

[ShootingStarsss]

Your coming across that you actually want your grandson removed from his mother?
Are you hoping she gets a custodial sentence for this very reason?

There is something very wrong with this thread...

[WTFisABooyhoo]

do you think YOU did the best thing for your DD by kicking her out without first teaching her the skills she would need to live on her own without resorting to theft to survive?

yes i think wrt the situation your DD was in and the astounding lack of support coming from anywhere else, her grandmother has done the thing that will give your DD the best chance of getting back on track with her life legally and with the skills to carry her through life. something you failed to do.

[alwayslateforwork]

And I apologise for being harsh. I really do. But you appear to be blaming your own mother for this situation - and it REALLY isn't her fault.

It really isn't. You and your daughter need to look a little closer to home for the blame for this one. And you both need to sit down and work out together what you are going to in the longer term. Fussing about her police record and what the sentence will be isn't going to put a roof over your grandson's head.

Will work not give you a short period of compassionate leave if you end up with temporary custody of a 2 yo?

[OldLadyKnowsNothing]

Can't believe the kicking the Op is getting! She had her dd and dgs for 18 months, with no sign of housing for the dd. As is often noted, the dd stands a better chance of (eventually) getting social housing if she's made homeless, in this case, by her mother. Sadly, that's a longterm scenario and the dd couldn't cope. That's not surprising, given all the circumstamces, but it's perfectly possible that Op was doing her dd a favour by evicting her, cruel as that seems.


O

[wonderingagain]

OP you are going through what would be my worst nightmare. You have done what you can and it has ended in tragedy with a vulnerable daughter, vulnerable grandson and a mother who's not very sympathetic.

In terms of what you can do - I think you need to take her back in and by hook or by crook make it work for her. Arthritis or no, you are going to really have to put yourself out as this is a make or break situation. Go to your daughter and ask her what she wants you to do and just do it.

Your mother is being unreasonable and obviously wants to teach you and her a lesson and the relationship sounds fairly toxic. Please don't do what your mother has done - try to support her even if it means going without yourself. If you have a spare room, take in a lodger but don't let your grandchild into the hands of this man's family.

Also, get another solicitor. Yours sounds rubbish.

[Madamecastafiore]

Most of us would lay our lives down for our children. Makes me incredibly sad that you won't even have yours living with you because it makes you tired!

We are all tired, that's what life is about when you are an adult.

[PigletJohn]

how old is granny?

how do you steal money from an old person's bank account? (or was it cash under the mattress?)

[cestlesautres]

Since when did Legal Matters become as vicious and nasty as AIBU?

"Mumsnet is hornet's nest and its naive to expect no critism" - apart from being of a very low level of literacy, this comment is very depressing. So if you ask for help under legal matters, you can expect to be attacked by hornets? Nice.

[cestlesautres]

OP, the one good thing about the mob piling in on your thread is that you will get more people reading it. Not all of them will be hornets or vipers. I think your mother is being completely unreasonable, and I feel for you. Please ignore all the nastiness on your thread, and do not on any account take it to heart. There but for the grace of God go I.

[alwayslateforwork]

Olkn, totally agree if that was the op's rationale. It wasn't.