Daughter been charged with Theft breached of trust, any ideas on likely outcome please?

[charliebird1979]

Ok this is really hard for me but here goes.

My daughter has been charged with theft breach of trust. She is a single mum currently seriously struggling financially. She is living with her 2 year old son in temporary housing and was facing homelessness. I'm not saying that this is an excuse, i'm just trying to give you all the facts.

She stole £800 in cash and around a £1000 worth of jewellery from her grandmother (my mother). She took the jewellery because she knew that her grandmother would be able to claim it on the insurance. She used the money to pay off housing debt in order to keep a roof over her and her son's head.

She had previously gone to her grandmother and begged her for help but her grandmother refused despite being extremely well off. My daughter then tried to obtain loans before she took the money and jewellery out of desperation.

I have begged my mother to drop the charges but she is refusing to and my daughter is now terrified of what sentences she might face and whether she will lose her little boy.

My daughter has no previous convictions at all, infact she has been the victim of serious crime. She works with disabled children for a living and this recent incident was completely out of character and done out of sheer desperation.

I am so torn out of love for her and my mother. Whilst my daughter did something terribly wrong, I also blame my mother for not helping her. I can understand why my daughter did what she did because I believe most of us would do anything to keep a roof over our children's heads.

Does anyone know how long she is likely to go to prison for? Will she lose her child?

Thank you in advance

[Teeteroo]

What happened to your daughter in the end

[HappyMummyOfOne]

The grandmother has done nothing wrong OP. She was a victim of theft!

Like others, i suspect the eviction was to gain a council house that has backfired. Its sad that a child is in that position when a grandparent has the room for them but doesnt want the odd sleepless night.

Your daughter is an adult and knows right from wrong. If she is old enough to have a child then she is old enough to deal with her finances. She could have taken on a second job or increased her hours if part time work doesnt cover her outgoings. Thats what others do instead of breaking the law.

Even if not custodial, her CRB check will put off manh employers and this will stay with her for some time.

[IcingOnTheNappyCake]

I hope that everything works out for you all and hopefully this will give her the motivation to work out bills and get everything back on track, people make mistakes but things will work out as long as you don't give up. I really hope things get better it sounds like you've all had a tough few months.

[andrews81]

What happened to your daughter? Is she ok now? :)

[MOSagain]

A lot of mud slinging here which whilst some might be justified, it doesn't actually help the OP.

I am a former police officer and in my opinion, she will not get a custodial sentence. If it is a first offence, it is likely she will get community service and a fine. I'm assuming she pleaded guilty at the earliest opportunity and if so, that does really help. The Courts tend to come down harder on those that plead not guilty and waste everyone's time.
The Courts on occasions do give harsher sentences to those who have betrayed a trust, as in this case, but given the information provided, it is still unlikely there would be a custodial sentence.

Those posters who have said that even if your mother withdraws her allegations the CPS can still proceed are correct.

[LIZS]

she has been putting money back into her grandmother's account since taking the money back in December I'm also confused re. the stolen "cash" . If she accessed gm's bank account there could be a more serious fraud related charge too and the bank would be involved. Has she ever "borrowed" from you and not paid it back, could she have already exhausted her gm's goodwill. How could she afford to put money back if she has ben in such dire straits.

[fedupwithdeployment]

I am no expert, but if your daughter wants to reduce the chance of a custodial sentence, any moves she has made to improve her situation in the meantime, can only help.

Continue paying back the money, perhaps talk in confidence to her work place - I often find honesty is the best policy (better late than never) and your daughter can (while being frank and honest) can put her own spin on things....so that when she is convicted she might have a chance to retain her job. Get her finances sorted more generally - talk to CAB and legitimate debt advisors. All that sort of stuff will impress a judge / magistrate. Blaming others is unlikley to do so.

[wonderingagain]

quietlysuggests has some good ideas - this is not the time for being pricipled, it's time to get realistic and save this boy's future even if it means stooping to begging and borrowing.

[wonderingagain]

OP you have probably got a dodgy solicitor - I should change or seek another.

Some of the comments on here are a bit OTT - some people simply enjoy watching others squirm but hopefully you know that already and can let it wash over you.

Your relationship with your mother is key here. You feel she should support you but she says she won't or can't. This pattern is being repeated before your very eyes with your own daughter - so please try and be mindful of this. Choose your own mother-daughter relationship with your own daughter - don't carbon copy your own version and make the same mistakes your mother did with you.

[CajaDeLaMemoria]

Anya Yes, but the OP then says that her daughter had most of the stolen jewelry to give back, but had sold £800 worth. If £800 isn't most, the total stolen can't have been £1000.

Unless her daughter stole over £1000 worth, but gave back all the rest. We'd still need to know what kind of figures we are looking at, though, and over what period, to offer any idea of sentencing.

[AnyaKnowIt]

OP says She stole £800 in cash and around a £1000 worth of jewellery from her grandmother

Did she take the money from a bank account or was it cash in the house? Was the money taken at the same time?

[CajaDeLaMemoria]

Ah, I thought of something else. How long was the theft going on for? Was it one big theft, or did this happen over some time?

[CajaDeLaMemoria]

There is some seriously dodgy advice and opinions on this thread.

OP, your mother has no involvement anymore. There is evidence and your daughter had admitted the crimes, so the CPS will prosecute even without your mother agreeing.

It will not matter if your mother goes to support her or not.

You need to be completely honest about the amounts involved in order to get an accurate response, and you have not been here. How much jewellery was taken, if your daughter had most of it but sold £800 worth? And how much money was actually taken?

If this was a straight-forward no violence, first offence, I don't think your solicitor would be stating two years. Any prison time at all would be unlikely, especially with a son.

[differentnameforthis]

Could she take her in? You are suggesting that the victim of a crime take in the person who committed that crime against them! I doubt the grandmother is likely to do that, she no longer trusts her GD!

[mummylin2495]

If my dd had stolen from my mum I would of been livid embarrassed and ashamed.i also would not of kicked my dd and her two children out when she too had to flee through violence. I think you need to look in the mirror op instead of blaming your mother.

[WTFisABooyhoo]

'we'?

MN members aren't employees or representatives. no-one here is obliged to defend Mn against anything.

[cestlesautres]

And I thought we were currently meant to be defending Mumsnet against accusations of being a nest of anything deeply unpleasant, rather than proving them right?

[cestlesautres]

NorthernLurker, this was my post:

"Since when did Legal Matters become as vicious and nasty as AIBU?

"Mumsnet is hornet's nest and its naive to expect no critism" - apart from being of a very low level of literacy, this comment is very depressing. So if you ask for help under legal matters, you can expect to be attacked by hornets? Nice."

I said the other poster's comment, which I object to on many levels, is of a very low level of literacy. I made no observation about that MNer's level of literacy. I think a bit more thought on her part about that particular post might have been helpful. I think it's wrong to say, as she did - not me - that "Mumsnet is hornet's nest". It's not. It doesn't need to be. No-one should have to expect to be attacked by hornets on Mumsnet.

[WTFisABooyhoo]

i definitely think that being reported will give your DD the best chance of sorting herself out OP.

i know in some families, cultures, areas etc it would be completely abhorrent to report your own blood for anything but in some cases it is the best thing to do as that person clearly needs help and reporting them gets them that help.

if your DD is the good person you say she is and this really was just desperation then she will be relieved to finally be put in touch with people who can help her make a budget and possibly help her with her son's sleep issues. she should also be able to get some counselling for the abuse and assault and also to deal with her damaging family dynamic.

[PigletJohn]

Difficult to follow this.

"around a £1000 worth of jewellery "

"she had most of the jewelley and has returned it but she sold some. She admitted to this and gave the police the receipt for £800"

I don't understand this. If £800 is less than "most," how could the amount taken only be £1,000?

Will the sentence be different depending on value?


"she has been putting money back into her grandmother's account since taking the money back in December"

"Daughter honestly thought she wouldn't notice the money go missing and that she'd be able to pay it back before anyone could realise that it had ever gone."

so this was money taken from a bank account, rather than cash under the mattress, for example put aside to pay for a funeral. Is this an elderly lady unable to look after her own affairs?

Will the sentence be different if it was taken from the bank?

[differentnameforthis]

I was upset that no one from the lodge where she is staying say her down and explained all her bills etc.

Why didn't you? This is a parent's job. Dh's parents taught him how to keep a tab of incomings & outgoings when he voiced his desire to leave home.

Yes she stole it but she was intending to pay it back But how will she replace the jewellery? Items that perhaps, your father gave her? Or her parents. Special things that she can never replace, not matter how well insured she was!

your mother is well off but won't help you, her grandchild or great-grandchild financially? that should be a crime. It's called learning to stand on your own two feet!

He was keeping me up in the night. so homelessness is better? Buy some earplugs. Did it occur to you that he is unsettled because of what he is going through? Leaving one home (where he may have witnessed violence towards his mother) moving into another where he had to share with mum, didn't have his own personal space etc. If his mum was scared, you can bet he was too. Poor fella. And his granny kicks him out because he keeps her awake :(

An action that means a mother will lose her son and a little boy will lose his mummy. Stop hamming t up, op. Lots of posters have said it is unlikely she will a] get a custodial sentence or b] have her son taken away. Unless you want her to get a custodial sentence & lose her son. Why else would you make a statement that you can't help with him. :(. Perhaps then, when she gets out, she can move in with you, sans son, as her ILs will have him & she can work to look after you! I wonder if you would have her back home if she didn't have a child?

I would like to know what job you manage to do 12 hrs a day, that isn't affected by your inability to use your hands! I find it sad that you can work 12hrs a day, but not help out with your grandchild.

I think your mother is being completely unreasonable Yes, I forgot. It is TOTALLY unreasonable to be upset at being - what can only amount to - burgled by your own flesh & blood. Imagine that, being upset that your granddaughter robbed you, took money that you had carefully saved to enable you to eat/live comfortably in your retirement & also took jewellery to the value of 1K, that was possibly given by family/husbands/parents etc..... how unreasonable!

Oh, but the jewellery was broke...that's ok then, NOT!!!

She stole the jewellery because she knew that it could be claimed on the insurance is the big hmmm for me. This doesn't say a desperate cash grab to me, it suggests calculation Good point...

[LIZS]

I'm with Bigorange , think there is more to this than is being said. Am I alone in doubting that this was the first request for money from op's dd. You don't want your life disrupted by a 2 year old gs , fine but you have to bear some responsibility for the consequences. I'm doubtful that no advice was available at the lodge/hostel or that you could not have directed her to CAB et al, had she been receptive and asked for it. Sometimes people have to learn to help themselves but resorting to a crime - which she perceived as impersonal because the insurance would pay up (would they really with no evidence of forced entry? What about an excess?) and low risk of punishment as she stole from an elderly relative - is not the way to set about it. Hopefully she will get a CSO and small fine and find an alternative direction.

[NorthernLurker]

Wow cestlesautres - some irony in attacking 'hornets' for being nasty whilst you criticise the literacy of a poster.