Daughter been charged with Theft breached of trust, any ideas on likely outcome please?

[charliebird1979]

Ok this is really hard for me but here goes.

My daughter has been charged with theft breach of trust. She is a single mum currently seriously struggling financially. She is living with her 2 year old son in temporary housing and was facing homelessness. I'm not saying that this is an excuse, i'm just trying to give you all the facts.

She stole £800 in cash and around a £1000 worth of jewellery from her grandmother (my mother). She took the jewellery because she knew that her grandmother would be able to claim it on the insurance. She used the money to pay off housing debt in order to keep a roof over her and her son's head.

She had previously gone to her grandmother and begged her for help but her grandmother refused despite being extremely well off. My daughter then tried to obtain loans before she took the money and jewellery out of desperation.

I have begged my mother to drop the charges but she is refusing to and my daughter is now terrified of what sentences she might face and whether she will lose her little boy.

My daughter has no previous convictions at all, infact she has been the victim of serious crime. She works with disabled children for a living and this recent incident was completely out of character and done out of sheer desperation.

I am so torn out of love for her and my mother. Whilst my daughter did something terribly wrong, I also blame my mother for not helping her. I can understand why my daughter did what she did because I believe most of us would do anything to keep a roof over our children's heads.

Does anyone know how long she is likely to go to prison for? Will she lose her child?

Thank you in advance

[NorthernLurker]

Don't worry Quint, no danger of this woman taking in her grandchild.

[IfYouCanMoveItItsNotBroken]

I agree that her early guilty plea to a first offence will reduce her sentence, she would be highly unlikely to serve a custodial sentence but don't expect she will have a job. Or, really, many job prospects.

You cannot blame your mother for your daughter's crimes, and you are not helping your daughter by pointing the finger at your mother, she needs to be accountable for her own actions. Similarly, it's not your fault your daughter did this - but if you point the finger at others it WILL be directed back at you using your own reasoning. If your daughter did this due to struggling as a single mother then this crime may bring her to the attention of social workers and get her some help.

[QuintessentialOHara]

I hope you are right Northern. Foster parents would be a much more sensible option.

[charliebird1979]

I care about the sentence because if she goes to prison then she will lose her son forever wont she?! You think that she will be allowed to be his mother after being in prison?! Plus I think prison will kill her.

You're all saying that i'm a terrible mother well i'm just here trying to do what I can. All I wanted was some advice and instead some of you have just been incredibly cruel.

[Repeatedlydoingthetwist]

I think there's maybe more to this story than meets the eye, I'd love to know the whole history between you and your own mother.

Again I agree with Northern, you have had the advice you asked for, and several links to information that you need, maybe readying through that would put your mind at rest?

[ShootingStarsss]

I don't think anyone has been cruel..
Truthful yes, cruel? No..

[Repeatedlydoingthetwist]

Reading even...

[NorthernLurker]

'You're all saying that i'm a terrible mother well i'm just here trying to do what I can' - like you did when you took your daughter's money towards your own rent then threw her out? Like you did when you knew she was struggling and desperate? I wish you were a troll OP!

[ReallyTired]

"Please don't post if you are just going to be nasty. That's not what mumsnet is about."

You just can't face the truth. Mumsnet is hornet's nest and its naive to expect no critism.

A two bed house could have easily accomodiated a granmother, mother and two year old. Its hardly over crowding. (not discussing the right or wrongs of the bedroom tax) The present govenent plans to cut the housing benefit of a single person working age who lives in a two bed house.

I feel desperately sorry for your daughter that she felt so desperate. It must be awful for her to be in a hostel with a two year old who wakes in the night as well as working. Its enough to give anyone a nervous breakdown.

"Also yes my mother shouldn't be under any obligation to give money but I do think she could've been a bit more sympathetic, especially as there is a small child involved."

charliebird1979 the same could be said about you. A loving granmother would have helped her daughter get the two year old in a better routine and maybe have helped with broken nights rather than kicking a child out on to the street.

[WTFisABooyhoo]

"i'm just here trying to do what I can."

what do you mean 'doing what you can'? you aren't intending to do anything of use to prevent the child being lost to her forever should she go to prison so what is the point of you even asking? are you just going to go back to your DD and say "well, it looks like you'll lose him. tough break kid"

[DeepPurple]

She's unlikely to go to prison. She'll most likely get community service and a fine to pay in instalments. She may loose her job.

The jewellery may well have been insured but what about sentimental value. There really is no excuse to steal so I'm afraid I believe she should get a hefty punishment. It really isn't up to her grandmother to help her financially. She should have gone to cab for advice if things were that desperate.

No doubt her relationship with her grandmother will be obliterated now? She's lost out overall already.

I suggest she speaks to her lawyer about the possible sentencing and goes to cab for advice re her financial situation. If she has payday loans still then a debt management plan would be advisable. The interest will cease and she can pay it back at £1 a week.

[SnapCackleFlop]

Caring for a small child is really hard and not sleeping well makes it worse. You found this tough as anyone would including your daughter who is also dealing with what sounds like a difficult relationship with her child's father, being the victim of an horrific violent crime and having been abused.

Because you found this difficult you put her in out and into a position which you've described as 'at risk of homelessness.'

Someone upthread has made the point that the lack of family support should be submitted in evidence to hopefully mitigate your daughter's guilt. I think you are rightly worried for your daughter and her child and I hope you will at least do this for her.

I'm horrified for what your daughter must have gone through and must continue to go through. I wish her well and hope she soon gets soon real support.

[charliebird1979]

I have looked over the links but as I said before the information is vague.

Earlier someone posted with their own experience in a similar case, I was hoping more people could do the same.

As for all of you being so horrible about me not wanting to take my grandson in, you might like to think about how I can look after a toddler when I can hardly hold his hand or put up his buggy. What you be saying to me if I took him in and accidently lost my grip on him near a busy road and he got hit by a car?! I live on road with lorries going up and down all the time. I can't take him in because I can't look after him properly.

If social services get involved and he goes to foster care then she will never get him back.

[WTFisABooyhoo]

your DD's solicitor will be able to advise her on what the likely/possible outcomes are. i dont really understand why you are here asking? you wont be using the information to help her in any way and it's information she will already be getting from her solicitor.

[crazynanna]

If social services get involved and he goes to foster care then she will never get him back

I don't think your dd will go to prison..but worst case scenario and she does...then there are plenty of mothers get their children back after being in prison. This was not a violent crime.

[charliebird1979]

I'm asking because her solicitor has been very vague herself about what might happen. Worst case scenario according to the solicitor is 2 years in jail.

And its the solicitor who seems to think that she won't be able to get her little boy back very easily.

[charliebird1979]

I had to charge rent due to the extra council tax, water, electric, gas.

[QuintessentialOHara]

[WTFisABooyhoo]

yes but what is the point of you asking? you aren't going to help her regardless of the answers you are given so why ask?

[caramelwaffle]

You posted so you could read other peoples accounts of brushes with the law?

You don't really need to know any more from a legal point of view as you have no intention of using the information to help your daughter or grandson.

Is this the gist?

[ReallyTired]

"I care about the sentence because if she goes to prison then she will lose her son forever wont she?! You think that she will be allowed to be his mother after being in prison?! Plus I think prison will kill her."

No she will not lose her son for ever. Social services try to keep familes together. Two year olds are difficult to find adoptive parents for and foster care is expensive. Your daughter is not an abusive mother and there is no reason for her to lose her child permanently. It maybe even possible for her to serve her sentence in a mother and baby unit like this one. It would certainly teach her life skills so she would not re offend again.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/mothers--prison-babies-behind-bars-8143296.html

If she does go to jail then its likely to be short sentence. She may even have her sentence reduced for good behaviour.

[caramelwaffle]

x-post

[olgaga]

It'll make no difference now if your mother decides not to press charges.

It's all very well moaning about the fact that your mother is financially comfortable but presumably she has herself to look after and is no doubt too old to replace any money she gives away, and she may need it herself. You can understand her position - having told her granddaughter she can't help her financially, she took it anyway. That's stealing, no matter how you dress it up.

I don't understand either why you couldn't have helped your daughter to organise her life a bit better. Why were you accepting rent from her when you knew she was getting no help from the father? You say she helped you a great deal financially while she was with you - no wonder she had no money to move out with.

You knew she had no experience of living on her own, didn't you talk to her about whether moving out was affordable? Or were you just so desperate to get rid of her?

What's done is done I'm afraid. Your mother hasn't helped her, but it doesn't sound like you've been much help either.

Tell her to contact Rights of Women - they have a criminal law helpline 020 7251 8887 (telephone) on Tuesdays between 11am-1pm and Thursdays between 2pm-4pm.

StepChange can help her organise her finances.