access and contact for baby 6 months

[PandaSpaniel]

Just after a little advice.

My ex and I are struggling to remain on speaking terms and we have a little boy nearly 6 months old who I am the main carer for.

We really need to sort out access but the way things are between us, it would be better for mediation of some sort. His dad had been having regular access up until last Thurs the 23rd August since we split up in June but we have been having arguments and have decided it would be better to let the solicitors draw up an agreement so we both know where we stand.

My question's are:

Do we need a court order which states exactly what days and when his dad will see him?

Can we do this through family mediation and how would I go about setting this up?

I am happy for his dad to have access including overnight stays should he want them (he probably wont) what sort of timescale am I looking at for it to be sorted out?

You write on a piece of paper what access you would like him to have, he writes on a piece of paper what he would like & take it from there. Involving solicitors doesn't force him to attend contact. It would be a lot cheaper if you could work it out between you but if not, mediation is the first step.

www.familymediationhelpline.co.uk/find-service.php

It does sound as though this would be the best way. Find out through the website above. There is a charge but it depends on your circumstances.

Six months sounds very young to be having overnight contact, but again, it depends on the circumstances. Ideally, if you're arguing, he should take the baby out. However, hopefully mediation will help you both deal with the issues you're arguing about too.

My ex is messing about, I think he really wants to see his son but then he doesn't bother making an appointment with a solicitor. I cannot see us being able to sort it out between ourselves.

If and when he sees a solicitor, how long does it take for things to get moving?
I am not sure what happens. Is it a long process if I am not saying no to access?

From what you have said I gather this is just about the arrangements for contact, but are all the other areas sorted? Finance, housing etc? Are you married or living together?

Have you tried communicating by email rather than face to face discussions around contact times?

You might want to start by pointing out that a regular schedule is probably best for all of you, and ask him what his preferred arrangements would be, then take it from there.

I think by the sound of it mediation might be the way to go.

Some further information you might find useful:

Relationship Breakdown and Divorce ? Advice and Links

General

Read everything you can get your hands on. Get familiar with the language of family law and procedure and try to get an understanding of your rights BEFORE you see a solicitor. Get word of mouth recommendations for family lawyers in your area if possible. If you have children at school, ask mums you are friendly with if they know of anyone who can make a recommendation in your area. These days there are few people who don?t know of anyone who has been through a divorce or separation ? there?s a lot of knowledge and support out there!

If there are children involved, their interests will always come first. It is the children?s right to maintain a meaningful relationship with the non-resident parent (NRP) ? not the other way around. Children are not possessions to be ?fairly? divided between separating parents. Parents have no rights, only responsibilities. A divorce will not be granted where children are involved unless there are agreed arrangements for finance, and care of the children (?Statement of Arrangements for Children?). It is obviously quicker and cheaper if this can be agreed but if there is no agreement, the Court will make an Order (?Residence and Contact? regarding children, ?Financial Order? or ?Ancillary Relief? in the case of Finance)

Many family lawyers will offer the first half hour consultation free. Make use of this. Don?t just stick with the first lawyer you find ? shop around and find someone you feel comfortable with. You may be in for a long haul, so it helps if you can find a solicitor you?re happy with.

If you can?t find any local recommendations, always see a solicitor who specialises in Family Law. You can search by area here:

www.resolution.org.uk/

You can also find family law solicitors here:

www.lawsociety.org.uk/areasoflaw/view=areasoflawdetails.law?AREAOFLAW=Family%20law&AREAOFLAWID=36

Check your eligibility for Legal Aid here:

legalaidcalculator.justice.gov.uk/calculators/eligiCalc?execution=e1s1

Some family law solicitors publish online feedback from clients ? Google solicitors to see if any recommendations or feedback exists.

Mediation

You will be encouraged to attend mediation. If there has been violence or emotional abuse, discuss this with your solicitor first. Always get legal advice, or at the very least make sure you are aware of your legal rights, before you begin mediation.

Married or Living Together?

This is a key question. If you are married, generally speaking you have greater protection when a relationship breaks down.

Legal Issues around marriage/cohabitation and relationship breakdown are explained here:

www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/relationships_e/relationships_living_together_marriage_and_civil_partnership_e/living_together_and_marriage_legal_differences.htm#Ending_a_relationship

static.advicenow.org.uk/files/benefits-and-livingtogether-2010-11-1161.pdf

DirectGov advice on divorce, separation and relationship breakdown:
www.direct.gov.uk/en/Governmentcitizensandrights/Divorceseparationandrelationshipbreakdown/index.htm

Legal Rights are further explained here:

www.rightsofwomen.org.uk/legal.php#children_relationship_breakdown

I found these guides from law firms quite informative and easy to read ? there are others of course:

www.family-lawfirm.co.uk/uploaded/documents/Surviving-Family-Conflict-and-Divorce---2nd-edition.pdf

www.terry.co.uk/hindex.html

Finance

Before you see a family law solicitor, get hold of every single piece of financial information you can, and take copies. Wage slips, P60s, tax returns, employment contracts, pensions and other statements ? savings, current account and mortgages, deeds, rental leases, utility bills, council tax bills, credit statements. Are there joint assets such as a home, pensions, savings, shares?

Handy tax credits calculator:

taxcredits.hmrc.gov.uk/Qualify/DIQHousehold.aspx

Handy 5 Minute benefit check, tax and housing benefit calculators:

www.moneysavingexpert.com/family/

Child Maintenance Calculator:

taxcredits.hmrc.gov.uk/Qualify/DIQHousehold.aspx

Further advice and support

www.maypole.org.uk/

www.womensaid.org.uk/

www.gingerbread.org.uk/

england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/families_and_relationships
(Re Shelter, if you are not in England follow the link at the top)

olgaga Thank you for that, some really useful info there.

We were only living together and in a rented house, so financially things are already separate and he is paying the amount that I would receive from him if we went through the CSA. (child maintenance calculator)

There was some emotional and physical abuse towards me but I don't think he would ever hurt his child, emotionally or physically.

He lives with his grandma, so there are issues about where he has contact as I am not sure it would be appropriate letting him have my son for overnight stays just yet, as sad to say, I don't think he would get up with him, it would be his grandma. As she is in her 70's I don't think this is fair on her or my son. He needs to be caring for his own son!

I was really hoping to sort it out between ourselves but he just infuriates me and we cannot agree to anything.

I am now trying to get some advice from a solicitor as things are just so hard to sort out.

Yes I definitely think speak to a solicitor - but make sure they are experienced in family law.

You'll get through it and out the other side, don't worry. Come back if you need to - I check in regularly but you can always pm me if you want.

I just want to say please really think hard about letting your very young baby go away overnight. It is very distressing for such a young child to be separated from their primary caregiver-presumably you. He will have no understanding at all as to where you are, to him it will feel as though you have gone forever and this is a very traumatic experience for someone so young. He needs to be old enough to be told what is going on and to understand. Please think about the effect this could have on his long term wellbeing. If you are in any doubt about this please look up attachment theory. I wish you luck with your situation and please remember to put the needs of your baby and you first. You must look after yourself if you are to be able to do the best by your little boy. Please. Good luck. PS No solicitor would say that a child that young has to go overnight by the way.

munchee: I disagree. A mother's fears over contact may well transmit themselves to a child and make contact more problematic. Doesn't mean to say that no child should be allowed overnight contact at that age with a non-resident parent.

I recall both my 2 children staying with their grandparents overnight at around 6 months of age with no ill effects.

How regularly did your children stay away Collaborate and how old are they now? A lot of damage can be to young children in the first three years of life by being passed around and having inconsistent care. They do not form a strong enough first relationship with their primary caregiver and this forms a negative pattern for them as adults. In your particular case you might not have seen any ill effects (yet) but as a country we are likely to continue to see an increase in mental health problems in young adults because of insecure attachments in infancy. This isn't just my opinion, it is backed up by scientific research, beginning with the work of John Bowlby. If you want to understand more about it, in an accessible form, I suggest you read Oliver James "They Fck you up" and "How not to fck them up". It's a bit of a wake up call I'm afraid

But the child won't be passed around and have inconsistent care. The child will spendti ewith both parents and build strong bonds with both parents. Which research also shows is best outcome and leads to more secure well rounded adults than those children who do not form meaningful and full relatio ships withbothparents

What research?

I'm sorry but that's absolute rubbish. Yes a child needs a secure and loving environment and as they grow older they need to form meaningful relationships with a variety of people. However in the first three years, the most important relationship is with the primary caregiver, generally though not necessarily, the mother.

At six months old a child does not understand object permaneance. They do not learn this until nearly one year. It is the principal that just because an object is visible, it does not mean that is ceases to exist. As such for a six month old, if they are not able to see their mother, as far as they are concerned she no longer exists. She is dead. This is a very traumatic thing for them to go through. The unconditional love that a child has for its mother is the strongest bond there is and to wrench a child away from their mother when they are too young to understand that they are safe, that she is safe and that they will see her again, is the ultimate tragedy.

Oh what absolute rubbish you sprout. Have you even read Oliver James or just the parts that support your sqewed views?

Google research and you will find lots btw

Yes I have. That's how I'm able to quote information from it. You on the other hand have given no references to any "research" whatsoever.

I would say no to overnight stays at that age, it's far too young - but you know your baby and situation best.

Cafcass acknowledge that overnight stays for very young children may need careful consideration, and I doubt whether a court would order it even if your ex were to pursue it - which as you say, is unlikely.

"Children under three may find staying contact more difficult than older children, so particular care and sensitivity is needed when making arrangements at this age"

"Children mature at different rates so do not expect your children to manage similar arrangements to others of the same age; some children are confident
and independent, others are shy and clinging. Young children may need much
reassurance to be away from the place they usually see as home without getting distressed."

"Younger children usually manage frequent, short periods of contact best; older children may prefer longer, less frequent periods. Be flexible and update your parenting plan over time. As children grow older their needs and circumstances will change, so will yours."

From "Time for Children" - Cafcass

www.cafcass.gov.uk/PDF/TimeforChildren.pdf

Custody minefield - children from shared care arrangements fare better on all measures than those from sole care arrangements. There is loads of research like this out there. But I'm sure you won't believe it but if you are interested i will spend the time finding all the relevant links for you

I have searched and searched but can find very little negatives to share care and can find very few research papers stating that it is detrimental for a child to spend time with both parents.

As you have so many Much maybe you would be so kind to add links?

I haven't said it's detrimental for a child to spend time with both parents!

I have said that it is traumatic for a young child to be taken away from its mother for too long. Of course, the child will naturally build relationships with others but it is unnecessary (and cruel) to take the child away from its mother for too long in order to form these other relationships.

I have given you references already in the titles of two books by Oliver James. Other books that discuss the importance of a close relationship with a primary caregiver and the damage seperation can cause are The Continuum Concept by Jean Liedloff, The Science of Parenting by Margot Sunderland and the work of William Sears

The original work on attachment and maternal deprivation was done by John Bowlby in the 1940s. You may have heard of the famous study done using Rhesus Macaque Monkeys. That was the foundation of his work. There is a limited amount of academic material available on the web but you can access this article:

www.psychology.sunysb.edu/attachment/online/inge_origins.pdf

There is some information available on the web on "attachment parenting" which has its roots in the pyschological studies into attachment theory. eg

www.attachmentparenting.org

I hope you find this helpful, Latemates

Thank you munchies as you appreciate it may take time to effectively research the above and spend adequate time to read up on the counter arguments but I will give it my attention as and when I can. But for the time if/until i read something that convinces me otherwise being I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this point.
Thanks again

munchee - my children are 8 and 10 - so if your post suggests that I have caused them mental illness by allowing their grandparents to look after them for a night in their first year please do confirm.

Your approach would make it difficult for the other parent to establish a significant relationship later on in the child's life - and why should they wait? Olgaga's quotes from the cafcass guidance hit the spot.

OP's OP said that she didn't object to overnight contact. Her eventual hesitation had much to do with the practical arrangements rather than attachment issues. Yet you manage to stick your oar in and put further doubts in her mind. Well done.

I'm only pointing out some basics of child developmental psychology! Everyone is entitled to make their own choices of course. Your defensive attitude Collaborate suggests that you have doubts over some of the parenting decisions you have made. I wonder what you were doing when your children were 6 months old that meant you had to leave them for a night?

The OP is probably under all sorts of pressures at the moment and trying to do the right thing by everyone. I was merely pointing out that it might be worth taking into account the effects an overnight stay away could have on such a young one.

As it says in the Cafcass guidelines:

"Children under three may find staying contact more difficult than older children, so particular care and sensitivity is needed when making arrangements at this age"

and

"Young children may need much
reassurance to be away from the place they usually see as home without getting distressed"

Everything I have said is based on scientific evidence, as well as obvious common sense-something some parents lack these days?

Collaborate, I really don't think it's right to compare the occasional night with the grandparents with regular overnight contact.

The OP has said:
I am not sure it would be appropriate letting him have my son for overnight stays just yet, as sad to say, I don't think he would get up with him, it would be his grandma. As she is in her 70's I don't think this is fair on her or my son. He needs to be caring for his own son!

In those circumstances she is right to be hesitant. However the important point is, overnight stays are not a requirement and she shouldn't feel she has to do it if she thinks it's inappropriate.

I don't know why Munchee has been singled out for such derision. S/he is simply pointing out issues which Cafcass and the courts recognise, which are taken into account in arranging contact for very young children. These are the reasons why "little and often" is recommended until children are older.

I don't know why there is such a reluctance to accept that most babies and young children feel happier with the security and stability of life with their primary carer, and less happy when they are passed back and forth between parents or other care-givers.

If you can't be bothered to get up with your own baby, and leave the care to someone else, then there is no chance of nurturing a "meaningful relationship" between you anyway. In those circumstances, the child might as well be with the other parent.

Not defensive at all Munchee - merely answering your question.

And as I don't want to come across as defensive and it's none of your business anyway I won't be sharing with you what my wife and I were doing when our children spent a night with their grandparents. However what I can conform is that neither of them were distressed to have a night away from us, and they both settled very well in nursery at age 6 months.

It's okay Collaborate you are entitled to your own parenting style.

Doubtless you feel your children did not suffer distress at the times when they were separated from you and your wife. However, the point of attachment theory is that the attachments we make as an under three set a pattern for relationships later in life. As your children are now only 8 and 10, it is too soon for any attachment disorder to be showing. I am not saying that that will definitely be the case with your children. I do not know enough about their experiences. I am just saying from a general pyschoanalytic viewpoint that the experiences children have (such as prolonged periods of separation anxiety) when their brains are developing so rapidly can have devastating effects on their mental wellbeing later in life.

You have mentioned nursery as well and so this broadens this topic out from contact issues with non-resident parents into the general childcare debate. The peculiar phenomenon that we now have in this country of outsourcing our children to an impersonal institution on a regular basis is a fairly new thing. It remains to be seen what the consequences of that will be on the mental stability of this upcoming generation.

I only hope that your nursery provided your children with a regular and consistent primary caregiver, providing them with the ongoing love and security they need as you and your wife were not able to.

Munchee, clearly as you know so much about everything, your children will grow up perfect with no problems. Right?

Oh course if they do anything you disagree with - god knows what you'll do then

Latemates I'm afraid I find your last post unproductive, irrelevant and frankly immature.

I don't know so much about everything but we're not talking about everything here, we're talking about whether a six month old baby should stay overnight with a non-resident parent. That is something that I feel qualifed to comment on as above.