Can my children be taken out of the country without a passport

[greenshutters]

Just that.

My husband is an EU citizen. He is having the children alone for the first time. I have their passports bt I suddenly thought that he has recently gone to his consulate to have his ID card and passport renewed so I am having kittens that there is some way he could have got some kind of ID for them. As far as I know, he doesn't know where their birth certificates are.

.

Depending on the nationality law of the country, if he can pass his nationality on to his children, he could well have got them passports. He's not German, is he?

Passport or no passport, he cannot legally take your children out of the country without your consent. All EU countries are signed up to the Hague Convention so, if he did take your children to his home country without your consent, getting them back should be reasonably straightforward.

greenshutters he could easily have obtained copies of the birth certs.
He could by now have ID cards for them from his own country, or indeed passports.
Passports are not necessary anyway for travel within EU as I am sure you know.
Not all EU countries respect the Hague convention, and I would be most concerned if he were from one of the 'new' EU countries, particularly Poland for example.
I do not mean to be a scaremonger, but do be careful.

Why are passports not be necessary for travel within the eu??? News to me. Could I take my children to France without them having one?

yes scarlettsmummy if you had photo ID for them, such as the national ID cards many Europeans carry, however as we here in UK do not have those, realistically you would need passports.

The UK is not part of the passport-less "Schengen" area. The only placea you should be able to get to from the UK without a passport is the Republic of Ireland, Isle of Man and the Channel Islands. To get into the Schengen area from here (UK/ROI/ et al.), you need a passport.

plutocrap I think 'schengen' is a different issue.
I promise you, I have personally seen people using national ID cards to travel in and out of the UK, (and not to ROI)

European ID cards, that is.

I only mentioned Schengen as it does leave people with the impression of borderless travel witin Europe, which isn't really applicable to the UK. I didn't know that ID cards could be used to travel in and out of the UK, but if I were a border official, I would be a bit suspicious if there were a bunch of kids travelling on their ID cards (can they even get ID cards so early?) when the adult mght have a passport.

(Disclaimer: I dind't say children travelling with their father, as that's sexist; as a woman, I wouldn't dream of being stopped while travelling with two children!)

you absolutely DO need a passport to travel from the uk to europe!!

No you don't gymboy! I travel to France from the UK all the time using just my french ID card.

prh47:

What experience do you have of recovering children under the Hague convention to make this statement?

'getting them back should be reasonably straightforward.'

gymboy not if you have an EU ID photocard, I know a few people who travel regularly on these as they don't have passports.

MaryHansack Poland are signed up to the Hague Convention

BUt how old do you have to be to get an ID card? Surely under-16s don't need them, as tey aren't responsible enough? For example, if you're not considered legally responsible enough for a bank card, how would it benefit you to have an ID card? Even worse, someone could steal it more easily from a minor (undue influence) and use it for fraud.

If you're worried about child abduction, there's an organisation called Reunite that provides good resources.

MaryHansack Poland are signed up to the Hague Convention - yes I know but that doesn't mean it is followed or respected.

as a woman, I wouldn't dream of being stopped while travelling with two children!)
oh you will be stopped alright if you do not share a surname....best to carry their birth certs in that case....

Plutocrap, what do you think ID cards do that passports don't? Estonian ID cards are just another identification document like a passport and a much more convenient one at that. Therefore there's no age restriction to getting one.

I didn't think of that, MaryHansack (even though that was in my mind when I changed my name after marriage).

riksti, I thought ID cards were for "accessing services", as the terminology goes, and as I imagined children wouldn't do that for themselves. For example, I would expect to hold a red book/carte de sante, library card, leisure centre card, passport and so on for my child. A passport/ID card just seems a bit too precious a document to let a child have responsibility for.

Sorry, I apologise for this distraction from the main discussion! greenshutters, you refer to him as your "husband": have you any reason to suspect you are a STBXW?

One more and then I'm done disrupting the thread - it does allow you to access services but requires passwords. You can keep hold of those on behalf of your child. Also, most services I can use through my ID card shouldn't be available to under 16s anyway (voting, utility contracts etc).

with equal apologies for distraction, plutocrap ID cards are a legal requirement in a lot of EU countries - they, and not your passport, are your main means of legal identification and you are in theory meant to carry them at all times. So you get one from birth. Doesn't mean your child has to actually carry it themselves of course!

Back to the main query - greenshutters I'd have thought that getting them ID without a birth certificate would be quite a tall order in most countries, but I speak from no knowledge whatsoever. If you have reason to suspect the DC are at risk of abduction though could you get some legal advice from someone knowledgeable about the country in question? If nothing else it might put your mind at rest.

You do need a passport to travel in and out of the UK if you are a UK national, because the UK doesn't have other forms of photo ID that are acceptable at border checks. However, EU nationals can travel within the EU with their national IDs. Most EU countries I know of don't issue IDs to children under 12 though, so your DH would probably have to get them a passport.

I never thought of getting written consent from DH to take DS out of the country, but I always carry his birth certificate with me to prove that I'm his mother. I've never been asked for anything else.

Birth certificates are public documents and can be obtained by anyone who knows the name and date and place of birth of the person whose birth certificate it is.

Most EU countries do allow parents to pass on nationality so I don't think there would be anything stopping him getting a passport in his home nationality for them. Do you have reason to think he would do that ?