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Legal matters

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Original poster

Landlords refuse to rent flat to me because I have a toddler.

105 replies

StephA · 31/07/2012 14:42

Hello Mumsnet.
I have twice been turned down for flats I wanted to rent, because I have a toddler (this was explicitly stated). Where I come from, that's ILLEGAL. Is is legal in the U.K. to do this? Is is normal? I am getting worried about finding a place to live, as there aren't many affordable flats in my area and my lease is expiring soon.

OP posts:

LindsC · 01/08/2012 00:39

no I think a lot of people think like me... you possible just don't lower yourself to talking to us...

Want2bSupermum · 01/08/2012 00:40

I wouldn't have a problem renting to someone with a toddler. My only rule regarding people I rent to is that I can't have more than 2 adults and 2 children in the flat or 3 adults. Where are you looking to rent?

QS I now charge for the professional clean when they move in. I don't take deposits with the new rules and I charge for the cleaning upfront as no incentive to leave the place clean at the end. If they don't want to pay it then they live in someone elses mess.

LindsC · 01/08/2012 00:43

"And there's the usual misinformation on here about HB being paid direct to landlords" - erm yes it is... I get HB and it has been paid direct to landlord on a few occasions... but then it's far easier to point the "un-informed" insults at everyone else isn't it...

QuintessentialShadows · 01/08/2012 00:53

"you possible just don't lower yourself to talking to us"

I did. I let my home to what I thought was a single mum of two who worked in a restaurant. Doing this cost me all my savings, caused financial hardship to myself and my family, gave me grey hair and lost me my sleep and my sanity. They vandalized my house and moved on, no doubt to another gullible landlord.

Then I let the house to 4 students. They only problem they ever gave me was not cleaning the property before they left.

nailak · 01/08/2012 00:53

I too receive hb paid direct to ll

Trills · 01/08/2012 08:51

The "misinformation" about how HB is paid seems to be that people think it is paid the same way everywhere.

Those of us guessing that the OP might not be the perfect tenant are doing so because she is stating her intention to lie about who will be living in the property.

She is demonstrating a lack of respect for the rules, and as such it is not unreasonable to think that she might demonstrate that same lack of respect for other things.

We are only going on what we know from this thread.

MrsGuyOfGisbourne · 01/08/2012 09:06

Quint re references for landlords, this is something I have done unofficially for years. When a tenant moves out ( last time five years ago as most recent tenants have stayed that long) I always ask them (after they have moved out and received their deporsit back ;-) )if thy would mind giving me a refernce to say I paid back their deposit on time. Thye have always gone far beyond what I have asked them to do, and given glowing reference with all their contact details for me to supply to future tenants and agents. (one even had his mothe chip in as well ) In fact we have not needed an agent for many years becasue we get tenants by word of mouth, and have never had a void, except the time we were forced to evict a tenant who stopped paying rent, and WE were treated like dirt by the CAB and court system

emmieging · 01/08/2012 09:16

HB paid to the tenant is the norm. It can be paid directly to the landlord if the tenant agrees, or in certain situations where they might not agree , eg if they are in arrears. IE if there is already a problem for the landlord

I totally concur with trills. This isn't about anyone bashing single mothers (that idea was totally left field anyway... Did the op even say she was a single mum? - if so I missed that)

No, the reason people are criticising her and why the landlords on here are mostly saying they wouldn't rent to her is her blatant admission that she would lie to get into a property and then 'hope' that it would be more trouble than it's worth for the ll to get rid of her ! A veiled threat if ever I saw one.

So- the ll, who may have a clause in their mortgage or insurance terms restricting the use of their property, or like the poster above who would be worried about having children because she doesn't deem her property safe or suitable for them- they can just go hang! Apparently they deserve a total lack of respect and indeed to be lied to. I think you'll find that's why people have been critical of her, not because they are prejudiced.

pookamoo · 01/08/2012 09:27

"Try: had to move the other side of the country for work, cant sell house because it's worth less than the mortgage, having to rent yourself (even though you'd far rather be living in your own house) and then shitting yourself every month in case your tenant is late with the rent and your mortgage goes into arrears."

Exactly that.
And it is the mortgage company that decides we aren't allowed to rent to anyone on HB, not us.

Let's try not tarring everyone with the same brush, shall we?

SilkySmith · 01/08/2012 11:59

"try lowering your standards and letting the lower-classes move into your house for a reasonable rent... their HB would be paid to you directly and you wouldn't have to worry about "professionals" blowing it all on martinis"

I don't actually know any LLs who make a profit, most rent their home out because they couldn't sell it and had to move, so they have to cover their rent elsewhere, their mortgage, gaps in tennants, repairs, insurance, ground rent, etc

LLs can't afford to charge less than market rent as many actually make LOSSES at times

SilkySmith · 01/08/2012 12:25

and y'know most don't start off with a list of restrictions unless their mortgage or freeholder demands that they do, those that choose to get a bit tougher mostly started off all idiolistic about tennents being appreciative of a good land lord and looking after their place in return.. and got burnt so had to get tougher.

Remember a lot of them have to pay rent to someone else too, they can't afford to drop prices

Viviennemary · 01/08/2012 12:41

I think the problem is when landlords are too trusting then tenants might take advantage. Some landlords do withold the deposit

Viviennemary · 01/08/2012 12:45

Don't know what happened there! Meant to say that some landlords withold the deposit when tenants leave for no good reason. Even if the place is clean and tidy. And maybe those buy to let mortgages stipulate no children. Not sure on this point.

Maybe landlords are reluctant to rent to people with children because in the case of non payment of rent it would be very hard to evict a person with a child. So I can see both viewpoints. But that doesn't help people looking for a place to rent.

Want2bSupermum · 01/08/2012 13:17

Viviennemary Yes a LL should withhold a deposit if the tenant moves out for no good reason. If a tenant does this the LL is losing a months income through no fault of their own.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 01/08/2012 13:19

?! What? want, are you serious?

Why on earth should I need a 'good reason' to move out? I just need to get in touch and let my LL know I'm moving out in a month or at the end of my 6-month period, whichever is sooner. Even if I sign up for 12 months, if I want to give notice to leave after 6, I will.

You do not get to withhold deposit for that.

I hope I've misunderstood you.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 01/08/2012 13:20

Thank goodness for deposit protection.

Trills · 01/08/2012 13:21

for no good reason

You are all having ambiguous sentences

Vivienne Meant to say that some landlords withold the deposit when tenants leave for no good reason.
The landlord has no good reason to keep the deposit

Want2b a LL should withhold a deposit if the tenant moves out for no good reason.
The tenant has no good reason for moving out

Trills · 01/08/2012 13:22

Want you are being bonkers - as long as the tenant gives the correct amount of notice, the "reason" behind them leaving is none of the landlord's business and should have no bearing on whether they receive their deposit back or not.

MrsGuyOfGisbourne · 01/08/2012 13:32

Tenants often don't bother to read the contract before they sign and don't seem to feel they ned to comply with what they signed up to. we had a group some years back who just moved out without telling me - forst I knew was when teh rent wasn't paid. Before mobile phones, so went round to the flat - they had moved out. I then had a call from them asking when the deposit would be paid back, as one of them had bought a house, the others were lodging with her and needed their deposit money to pay her rent! These people had no idea of giving notice or behaving decently. The place was left in a mess, no attempt to clean it etc... They also often don't grasp that they need to get the place cleaned and their furniture moved out before the end of their tenancy as new tenanats will be moving in the day they leave...

LRDtheFeministDragon · 01/08/2012 13:34

Oh, that is awful! The cheek of them getting in touch for the deposit!

I think if your tenants are 'often' not reading the contract, I'd be telling them to do it!

MrsGuyOfGisbourne · 01/08/2012 13:39

We learnt from our mistakes, as others have said. We are now much fussier about who we take as tenants and trust gut feel on it - references are not worth the paper they are forged written on, and agents generally just wan to take the money and run. The last few tenants we have had through recommendations from previous tenants, and have been fine - latest lot have been with us mor than five years. The rent is now well below the market, but it is win/win as we have good people we don't want to leave, they have good landlords they trust.

MrsGuyOfGisbourne · 01/08/2012 13:41

Interestingly, one thing we have not till now put in the contract is who is living there - hadn't considered people being deceptive about that - now reading the OP who is prepared to lie, will definitely make this a stipulation for future tenants. Good for Mumsnet education!!!

LRDtheFeministDragon · 01/08/2012 13:42

Yes, I wondered about that after someone said their contracts always specified who was living there. I know I had one where they tried to put in no overnight visitors (?!), but my current one doesn't say anything beyond who the 'lead tenant' is.

Want2bSupermum · 01/08/2012 13:50

I misunderstood Viv as I read that the tenant did not give advance notice of them moving out. This has happened to me.

The standard contract I was given says if you want to break the agreement in the first 6 months reason must be that employment is more than 30 miles away or unforseen financial circumstances have resulted in the tenant not being able to afford the rent. This is not unreasonable as many LL incur a lot of expenses when new tenants move in. In these situations a reason is needed and it is very likely that some or all of the deposit will be withheld no matter how clean and tidy the place is. As I don't take a deposit or incur too many expenses when a tenant moves in, I don't include this clause. I do tell the tenants that I want an open dialogue with them. If something is up (repairs or changes in their circumstances) I want to know about it sooner rather than later.

LRD FWIW I had an awful time with the deposit protection scheme. The law dictates that you need to return the deposit within two weeks of the tenant moving out. The problem was that the scheme didn't return the deposit for more than 5 months. I was out of pocket for 5 months plus spent hours on the phone with them sorting it out. As I am a pretty good LL I returned the funds to the tenant because it was the right thing to do and I knew she needed the money for her next place. The deposit scheme said I shouldn't have returned the money!

Trills · 01/08/2012 13:54

Mine have always asked for who is living there.

No stipulations about overnight visitors, or about what the difference is between a visitor and someone living there, but it'll be pretty clear in the OP's case that the child is living there and not just visiting.

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