do i have to let exp who does not have PR attend a routine dental appointment for dc?

[cestlavielife]

exp does not have PR.
long backstory was abusive etc.

he is desperate to be involved which means trying to attend every single routine medical appt.
tomorrow dds have regular routine checkup. nothing anticiapted, one at some point in future (2-3 years) will need orthotics referral.

i dont want him there - ystrday had to atend a pre assessment at family therapists centre with him to get some counselling for dc over contact issues. they inisted we both attend pre assessment together. he accused me of all sorts including being abusive, was ranting and raving. hopefully therapists took note for their report - but it was awful. i really dont want to be in same room as him tomorrow while dds have routine dental review!
.

can i just say no ?

legally i think so as he does not have PR?

morally?

he knows there is an appt and is asking where and when...

?Upon reading the tone of your posts?

So you pass judgement not on the facts or for that matter the emotional contents, or indeed align common law with stature you rely on ?tone?.

You are as much a family lawyer as I am the Duke of Westminster.

Actually amanspointofview a group of family lawyers who regularly post on this section have in recent months carried out a 'behind the scenes' exercise in order to be able to vouch for each other when posters such as you made comments doubting their standing as family lawyers. I have exchanged personal information with Collaborate which included checking out and verifying his, yes HIS, personal qualifications, membership of Resolution and other factors. I understand that babybarrister also knows Collaborate professionally as does I believe Mumblechum, another family lawyer on here. I have 'checked out' mumblechum and have been checked out by her and Collaborate.

So, does that mean that you are indeed the Duke of Westminster or perhaps just a very bitter man who for whatever reasons is not having the contact he wants with his children?

I am far from being ?bitter?. I am, according to my wife of fourteen years and the mother of my children, extremely laid back, chilled and an outwardly positive all-round person. I neither have the need nor desire to engage in pointless personal attacks. Nor do I feel I have to defend my credentials. I will, however, remind you that this is the Legal Section and not the Relationship Section so please stop throwing your toys out of the pram.

From a purely legal point of view if he doesn't have parental responsibility he cannot insist on being there unless a court order says otherwise. Same as he couldn't stop you going abroad, decide medical issues etc. This is what a lawyer told a friend jn a similar situation. It does depend in how old your dc are though the law changed at some point regarding birth certs and pr. best of luck

Amanspointofview - why do you feel the need to control what is and is not posted in this, or any other section of mumsnet? It isn't actually up to you, and what matters is that the OP gets advice that is useful to her.

I would also be very surprised if any child felt that it was 'important' that both parents attend a dental check-up with them, or felt bereft that dad or mum hadn't been there. If it was their birthday party, or a concert/play they were performing in, Graduation, or some other similar event, you might have a point, but I greatly doubt that any child will remember whether or not a parent attends a routine appointment.

It is also interesting that you have managed to ignore what the OP has said about her dds' feelings about their father. The fact that they do not want to be alone with him in his flat, and are only comfortable to be with him in public places, unless the contact is supervised, says to me that they are scared of him - and for that reason, I would out their happiness and comfort ahead of this man's desire to be at the dental check-up. To be honest, this sounds more like him wanting to make his ex wife's life miserable/difficult, than a real wish to see his dds' teeth counted and checked.

I do not need to ?control? what is written in this section but do have the right to point out the obvious. My interests are solely with the child. If you and others spent more time being constructive said child may benefit. Stop being so judgemental when you are not in receipt of all the facts.

In an ideal world every child would grow up with emotionally intelligent parents who were able to consistently put aside their disagreements or dislike of one another to work always in the best interest of their child, about which they would of course always be in harmony.

In the real world, people have children and don't then stay together. There are many reasons for this, including fact that one of ex couple may be abusive or dangerous. In that scenario it makes no sense at all to insist on allowing the abusive half to micro manage a childs life if the child loves with other parent as this is often only a cover for the abusive parents wish to continue to contol and manipulate.

So, to reiterate you do not have to agree for him to go to a routine dentists appointment. If you are child's primary carer, you organise these routine matters and inform him if they turn into anything more serious.

Not 'loves with', 'lives with' stupid iPad.

As opposed to your more "constructive" comments, I suppose.

"Get over yourself. He wants to attend his daughter?s dental appointment. Little things a child remembers later in life. Grow up.

Now perhaps those that have a dislike for a man?s point of view would like to discuss not only the children?s act coupled with human rights legislations and perhaps could advance some moral philosophy.

Do not apply to be a Judge as your ability to ?think with reason? is faulted.

You are as much a family lawyer as I am the Duke of Westminster"

Various posters (some of whom I know to be lawyers) have given a legal response to a legal question. You, on the other hand have come out with....

well, I'll let people make their own minds up.

Anyone who is genuinely interested in the child, amanspointofview, would have taken note of the fact that these children do not want to spend time alone with their father in his flat - they are uncomfortable with him unless they are in a public place or a supervised visitation - which suggests that they are afraid of him. The OP (who will know better than you what went on in the relationship) says he was abusive, and it would seem he has trouble controlling himself - so I find it easy to understand why the OP's children don't want this man around.

I also fail to see what actual benefit there is for the dad to be at the dental check-up. As I said earlier, it is hardly a landmark moment in a child's life.

As you clearly think medical check ups are important father-daughter bonding moments, presumably you think this father should have the right to be there if one of his dds needs a vaginal examination. Or if she gets a urinary tract infection and needs to see the doctor.

Oh - and complaining repeatedly about what people have posted on this thread and whether or not you consider it appropriate comes pretty close to wanting to control what is said on here. Do you police conversations too, and insist that they don't stray off-topic? Because essentially that's what this is - a conversation.

amanspointofview wrote;

Stop being so judgemental when you are not in receipt of all the facts.

Smacks of double standards to me after you wrote "Get over yourself. He wants to attend his daughter?s dental appointment. Little things a child remembers later in life. Grow up."

Just leave the law aside for a second - because actually in a situation like this it's not that important. No reasonable parent would insist on attending a routine dental check-up which another parent is already attending! That's absurd, completely over-the-top behaviour. It makes a drama out of a mundane matter which is totally unhelpful to the child.

As for the notion that a routine dental check-up is some kind of milestone in a child's life they will "remember forever"... that's plain weird!

What OP is describing is nothing but a blatant and rather pathetic attempt to assert control and piss off the RP just to make her life a little more miserable than it need be. Pity the poor kid who has such a father.

Olgaga - you have said exactly what I was coming back to say - and more concisely too. A routine dental check up is not an important eve t requiring the presence of both parents, here in Commonsenseland, where you and I live, but amanspointofview has never even visited, I suspect.

Oops - I appear to have killed the thread. Sorry for that, OP, and I hope you got the advice and support you needed.

tks - SDT - you all (ok most) really really helped... legalities is pretty clear !
also dd has some ongoing dizziness nausea thing going on - nothing shows up on tests - latest gp appt (finally getting paed referral) said it might be "just" stress/anxiety - which i have gut feeling could be related to pressure from dad to have contact and him turning up to "see" them when they have been out and about... altho in public place/supervised it may be having more negative impact than i thought...

Poor wee thing! Might Rescue Remedy help her? Or aromatherapy - there must be oils specifically for stress and anxiety.

babybarrister PM me and we can check each other out I think its a good idea for us lawyers to check each other out so we are able to vouch for each other when the loons/Jeremy Kyle brigade start questioning us.