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Original poster

EX-H has applied for downward variation of Periodic Payments - Help Please

42 replies

BillytheConk · 05/05/2012 09:48

Hello

I wonder if anyone has any advice for me? At third and final court hearing two years ago my EX-H was ordered to pay me a lump sum and then monthly periodic payments for life.

History of marriage - long marriage, DC, financial and emotional abuse throughout marriage, family business involving his family, my contributions were financial, physical (ie I worked to contribute to said business), childcare etc etc. Ex-H difficult and entitled, wanted rid of us (me and DC) but didn't see why he should pay me back for all I had contributed. His family similar.

His business - never been better - other businesses in same field thriving currently.

I have depression, other illnesses, and am near retirement age. I have all DC and partners living with me, all in further education or apprenticeships, so very low earners from whom I take no financial contributions.

I rely totally on the periodic payments. I earn very little with no prospects of this changing. I receive minimal tax credits etc, which will cease totally next year I think. I have no life to speak of, and no spare cash at all.

Ex-H has suddenly reduced the payments by half, and applied to the courts for a downward variation. We have a date for the hearing. My solicitor tells me that we may have to have up to three hearings, again, to sort this out.

Ex-H is an entitled and arrogant liar, who had no worries re showing his true colours in court last time. I have NO money, and cannot possibly pay any legal fees. I have no idea how I am going to survive until the hearings, financially or mentally.

Can anyone give me any advice please? I don't even know what I am asking!

OP posts:
LaurieFairyCake · 05/05/2012 09:55

is the money just for the children or to support you?

I'm wondering if you can delay it long enough for the children to be off your hands so that you don't need to wait for money from him?

purplewithred · 05/05/2012 09:55

nothing to offer except a hug. and your kids and their partners need to start contributing - if you lose their house they will have to pay their own housing costs etc so it's time they gave back.

LaurieFairyCake · 05/05/2012 09:56

Also, how much are the children hassling him for money - he may (because he's a fucker) be got round by them asking him for money and then they can they pay you for 'rent'/food?

WorriedBetty · 05/05/2012 09:58

take out a life insurance policy on him - that will shit him up...Grin

ToothbrushThief · 05/05/2012 10:06

I have depression, other illnesses, and am near retirement age. I have all DC and partners living with me, all in further education or apprenticeships, so very low earners from whom I take no financial contributions.

I rely totally on the periodic payments. I earn very little with no prospects of this changing. I receive minimal tax credits etc, which will cease totally next year I think. I have no life to speak of, and no spare cash at all.

I'd suggest citizen's advice bureau and googling - I learnt a huge amount to 'defend/fight' in court for myself.

Changing your perspective might help how you feel? I hear that you feel you either cannot work or improve your financial lot due to health and age. He might be in the same situation? If you were still married you'd experience financial loss when he did. I often read posts where the OP thinks that their financial status on divorce should remain the same ....when actually all of us experience ups and downs.

All DC and partners? Who are the partners and are they adults? If so they should be self supporting. You are not responsible for them and your ex husband isn't either

Original poster
BillytheConk · 05/05/2012 10:22

Wow! Thanks for replies! Didn't expect any!

I do work, but this has reduced hugely due to recession. Am namechanger and have changed details of DC and partners slightly. When I say no financial contributions from them, they do buy food etc when they can. They cannnot be self-supporting as very low wages (or none!).!

Ex_H is most definitely not in same situation! In fact total opposite as if he cannot work any longer can sell business and make alot of money. I contributed over many years to this business, but was kept in dark as to extent of worth of business whilst married.

I have no pension, usual bills to pay. State pension now many more years ahead due to change in rules etc. I feel that he is still bullying and abusing me. He has been calling me trying to get me to stop taking the payments.

I understand we all get ups and downs, but it seems to be me who gets the downs while he gets all the ups!

As I say, I have no idea what I am asking really - I did expect to get replies saying 'well I get nothing so stop moaning', which I understand. I suppose I wondered if anyone else had been through this and what the outcome was?

DC don't get any money from him! They didn't when we were married!

OP posts:
LaurieFairyCake · 05/05/2012 10:32

Do they see him? Why can't they hassle him for money if they're still in education?

I'm definitely not saying 'stop moaning' - moaning is great ! Grin

But if these children are almost all adults then it might be easier for you to emotionally remove yourself from the situation.

Also, if you feel you didn't get enough in the settlement unfortunately there is cock all you can do about it now if you were adequately represented. It's really, really tough to see your ex enjoying his life and having a load more money, morally you might quite rightly feel it is yours too.

Instead you're going to need to comfort yourself with the fact that you're probably a much better parent - you're the one with all the children staying with you.

Original poster
BillytheConk · 05/05/2012 10:47

Thanks Laurie! I'll carry on then!

I was happy with the settlement. The payments every month that he was ordered to pay are not huge, but made all the difference to me being able to pay my bills. Its him that has decided he doesn't want to pay it any more. I know he was furious at the outcome of the final court hearing, and I think he has spent the last two years since then rearranging finances so that it looks as though he is now poverty-stricken.

The DC know not to ask him for anything - even after birthdays, Xmas etc he complains to them about 'how much they have had out of him'. He has spent our whole marriage telling us all that 'I have no money', which we all believed. I found out what a total lie that was when I saw his financial affairs laid out for the court.

As I say. I don't really know what I am asking here, but the answers are really appreciated - thankyou.

OP posts:
oohlordylordy · 05/05/2012 11:45

Has he given a reason for the downward variation? Is he retiring / lost his job?

RedHelenB · 05/05/2012 12:47

That#s the trouble with spousal payments - ex's on the whole do resent paying them, particularly when children are grown up. He will have to show that his circumstances have changed but as you say it will cost you to go to court. What happened to the lump sum?

Tbh, I think you may need to accept that you won't be getting any money from him long term as he seems determined to not pay it.

Original poster
BillytheConk · 05/05/2012 12:48

He says he cannot afford it any more. Well that's what he ranted at me on the phone. No idea of any 'official' reason.

As I have said - he has very profitable and valuable business. There is no possibility that he will ever be without money.

OP posts:
Original poster
BillytheConk · 05/05/2012 12:54

The lump sum was used to pay off debts that I had from the marriage - I had debts - he had money in the bank. Also to put towards a house and car (14 year old banger!), furniture etc.

Much if his income is now derived from investments I made in the business. The court order ensured that he was repaying my investments

OP posts:
RedHelenB · 05/05/2012 13:00

How do you KNOW about the business though - we are in a recession. You can't really do anything other than to say your circumstances haven't changed - the onus is for him to prove that his have. I am sure morally that you are entitled to the money BUT practically it sounds as though he will do everything he can not to pay & that is the reality of the situation.

MOSagain · 05/05/2012 13:33

Billy, he simply cannot reduce the amount of spousal maintenance he is paying. Even though he has applied for a downwards variation, he is still obliged to pay the amount ordered and if does not, he is in breach of the Court order. Obviously there will now be several Court hearings and this is not going to get resolved overnight but ultimately, he could well be ordered to repay the monies that he has not paid.

It is down to him to prove that his circumstances have changed and if the Judge accepts this, then he MAY vary the amount of maintenance downwards. Just because your ex doesn't want to pay it doesn't mean he can't.

Original poster
BillytheConk · 05/05/2012 13:43

Thankyou MOS - do you have experience of this? The original court hearings were very stressful and cost alot of money. The thought of going through all that again just a couple of years later is having a dreadful effect on me.

And I have no means of paying for them.

What happens if someone breaches a court order?

OP posts:
MOSagain · 05/05/2012 14:07

Yes, dealt with a few variations although not recently. Are you instructing someone at the moment or did you just go back to your old solicitor to ask what to do? If so, they should be writing to him pointing out that he is in breach of the Court order and you will be defending his application (which I assume you want to do) and will be seeking an order for costs. If you are not instructing anyone, then simply write to him setting this out yourself. He needs to be aware that until anyone says otherwise, he should be paying what he has been ordered to pay. There are penalties for people who breach court orders but as he has applied for a variation he will no doubt say that he can't afford to pay what he was paying and this will be a matter for the Judge to decide.

Are you perhaps eligible for public funding (Legal aid). I'd suggest either asking your old solicitor if they do it or finding somewhere that does. Look at the Resolution website for a family lawyer near you that does public funding.

Original poster
BillytheConk · 05/05/2012 14:20

Well I just went back to my original solicitor who is very experienced. They are a Resolution lawyer.

Will ask about legal aid. Didn't know that may be available.

The original case was very complex so thought that original solicitor would have a handle on it. Is it likely to go to more than one hearing do you think? Not sure how I am going to cope TBH.

OP posts:
MOSagain · 05/05/2012 16:29

If you can't agree then yes, it will almost certainly go to at least a second hearing. You will no doubt have to complete Form E financial statements and exchange them so you need to think about starting to collate all your financial information. Sorry, probably not what you want to year.

hermioneweasley · 05/05/2012 16:36

I have no idea of the legalities of the situation, but if your kids are grown, why does he have any obligation to support them or young he chooses not to? Why aren't your DCs and their partners contributing? If they are living with you then even on a low wage they could afford to give you something, and those not earning will have to get another part time job. If the kids are over 18 then I can see his reasoning that it's time for them to support themselves.

MOSagain · 05/05/2012 16:49

I think the maintenance the OP is referring to is spousal maintenance, ie for her, not the children.

Original poster
BillytheConk · 05/05/2012 17:05

He has never given me anything for the DC!

OP posts:
STIDW · 05/05/2012 21:51

To avoid any doubt I'm not a lawyer. Variations are a bit like the financial proceedings on divorce in that there is disclosure, the judge decides how to proceed and only if no agreement can be reached is a ruling made. The financial position of both parties is considered afresh so any change in circumstance is relevant and there is always a possibility that the outcome of an application to vary downwards is upwards.

Therefore my suggestion would be take one thing at a time and don't panic. When you have a better idea of your ex's position you can decide (with the help of your solicitor) if it's worth trying to negotiate a compromise or whether your ex is chancing it. If he pursues the issue unreasonably there is a risk of him being ordered to pay your costs.

Collaborate · 05/05/2012 22:33

The most important factor is any relevant change (in income, resources, or needs) since the order was made. The court has the power to replace a ppo with a capital payment (clean break) but will only do that if it can ID any suitable assets.

babybarrister · 06/05/2012 08:42

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
BillytheConk · 06/05/2012 11:09

Oh thankyou all so much for your answers.

I feel a bit better now. I didn't know that lifetime awards are rare. That's interesting.

There are plenty of assets on his part. Can he appeal if it does not go his way?

OP posts: