Permission from one parent when other taking DC abroad?

[NotaDisneyMum]

I've just seen something in LP that's made me twitch and my Google search has left me even more confused!

In cases where there is no CO for residency, does a parent with PR need the written permission of the other parent to take the DC out of the country?

My DD (UK passport) is going abroad with her dad, his partner and other family members next week; I've said it's ok verbally but not signed anything - could they get stopped and be refused travel?

I've been stopped and questioned at Immigration going into Canada about where DS's father is/permission. When I informed them he died, they asked for proof! I didn't have his Death Certificate with me - they let me through with a warning that I should always carry it with me.

BUT - I've also travelled to Australia (twice), Switzerland, France and Ireland since DS was born and haven't been asked at any of them - or returning to the UK.

I'd probably write a note, just in case - but assume it won't be needed.

HTH

We've travelled with my DSS many times and never had any problems. He has a hyphenated surname so my DH and I have the same surname as the first half of his. Don't know of that makes it easier or maybe they just assume I'm his mum so don't ask.
My DH has never travelled alone with him so maybe in that circumstance he would be questioned.

That's a good point - I haven't changed my name on my passport yet - so we have different surnames. But I did tell the people at Canadian immigration that I had DS's birth certificate to prove he's mine and was told that they didn't care about that - just whether there was permission from his Dad

I was called by airport security/customs (?) when my daughter flew with ex-h for the first time, to check that I'd given permission.

I kind of get the feeling it was a spot check kind of thing. Not sure what they'd have done if I hadn't got to the phone!

Ex-h was advised to always carry written permission when flying, always stating dates and destination etc.

Oh, glory

exH is not the kind of person who I give a note to "just in case"; he is so fixated on his equal rights that the mere suggestion that he may need "my permission" will send him off on one! I don't want to involve DD by putting it in her bag, either, because she knows he'll react badly

I guess he'll have to work this one out for himself and if he is stopped, the customs official can deal with his righteous F4J-style indignation

baby - I've read different things though. Some websites say that when there isn't a court order, neither parent (assuming both have PR) can take the child abroad without permission of the other - whereas others say that each parent can make an independent decisions in such a case.

Which is it, does anyone know?

IT isn't about treating mothers and fathers differently, some countries (Canada and Mexico come to mind) expect either parent traveling alone with a child to have written consent from then other parent or permission from the courts. Without consent the immigration authorities may not allow admission to the country.

For peace of mind you could check the rules for the country your daughter will be visiting, if necessary with the country's embassy. Should consent be required
perhaps you could point your ex to the information and provide the written consent for your daughter's benefit.

I've said this on the other thread, but will re-iterate it here.

The letter has to be formally signed & witnessed.

It isn't about whether you have a birth/marriage cert. on you, or the same name.

IT IS TO CHECK THAT YOU HAVE THE PERMISSION OF THE OTHER PARENT TO TRAVEL WITHOUT THEM.

This applies to me, even though I am married to dh, and we all have the same family name, address, are named as each other's contact etc etc.

I have no idea what people are meant to do if they have no contact with the other parent, or if their partner died. - HOW the Canadian authorities expected the other poster to get a letter for the future, I'm not quite sure.

As far as taking children on holiday from the UK a parent with a residence order in their favour can take children abroad on holiday for up to one month without consent from the other parent. However, when there is no residence order it can be an offence to take children abroad under the Child Abduction 1984. It isn't an offence when consent is unreasonably refused.

To avoid misunderstandings, court hearings or disruptions from authorities when you are abroad it is advisable to obtain consent from all those with Parental Responsibility for a child, unless there are conditions for holidays attached to a court order. You have agreed to the holiday so there is no problem with your ex taking your daughter from the UK.

Entering another country is a different matter. Countries have their own rules and when children are traveling with one parent only some jurisdictions require written consent from the other parent before the immigration authorities will admit children to the country.

My DCs have my late DH's surname, and I have been asked whether they are my children many times at immigration desks.

Canada seems to be the strictest on this, but I have also been asked for proof that the DCs are mine when boarding Eurostar at Lille, and I have heard other people have had the same experience. I have also been asked whether they were mine at Heathrow, but they didn't ask for any documents, while at Lille I had to produce their birth certificates, and DH's death certificate, which I always now carry when travelling.

I think that immigration officers are checking much more frequently now, so a signed, witnessed letter could save an awful lot of hassle.

I agree that Canada seems to be the strictest, have often read that single parents travelling with children have had issues there.

I have travelled to the USA and Middle/Far East many time with DC1 and 2 who have different surnames to me and never once had a problem.

Canada is very strict about this. I've managed fine with a signed (not-witnessed, not-formal) letter from MrNQC.

(I have a different surname from my children, and travel on a Canadian passport, while they travel as Brits.)

If he is as you describe then on his own head be it...hopefully he will get a wake up call if they call you like another poster had happen. I should think that's all that will happen.

It will soon become an absolute matter of course that you are required to present the relevant, legally witnessed document. (and quite rightly IMO)

Having had no problems for 8 years (ddand I often travel alone) I was stopped at Christmas both when leaving Italy and entering the UK. Immigration officer told me that soon all single (as in 1) parents travelling with minors will have to produce this document.

There are various templates you can d/l but they need to be witnessed properly.

I find this extremely worrying. There is no way my ex would sign a letter of consent for me to take dc abroad. We don't speak and he has limited contact with dc. He would refuse just to be spiteful. What would I do if we wanted to go on holiday?

Get a court order giving you permission to take dc abroad whenever.

There's nothing, literally, to stop him leaving the UK. As I'm sure you've noticed, we don't have immigration exit controls as they were abolished in the 90s.

Hmm, thinking about that, occasionally, VERY occasionally, like twice in the last 10 years, they have put up temporary exit controls after security at LHR T3 - but this is the ONLY place I have ever seen exit controls in the UK.

But- most European countries have both exit and entry controls- and the UK does have entry controls- so, in a mad situation you could find yourself unchecked leaving and stopped coming back home.

Effectively that's what happened to me at Christmas- I was questioned at length leaving Italy (where we live) and entering the UK at Stansted. Leaving Stansted however in January tooled up with my signed and witnessed doc I wasn't stopped at all. Immigration have always been told to look a bit more closely at one parent with one child, and from what the man said at Stansted when I was coming in, are going to get tougher. Rememberthe checks don'tnecessarily have to be done by an Immigration officer-the Ryanair girl checks your ppt at check-in and it's checked again at the gate, they could always alert the immigration officer on the ground that they think something is amiss.

We get asked as we present passports just before going through security. They always look at dd and ask her if daddy couldn't come. It's quite low key, but they always do it, and clear that they are making sure that dd is happy to be travelling without her dad there.

In the US it's legal for me to go on a holiday without his permission, but if I were moving back to the UK with dd (whether we were married or not) then I HAVE to have his permission to do so with dd. Which means that they check, just in case I book return tickets for a 'vacation' that I don't intend to return from.

dsis & I are both teachers. we have both seen children 'whicked away' by the non-res parent, so it is something that can be a concern.

I've travelled with DS and not been stopped. Most recently travelled from
Glasgow-London and London-Verona. DS has my surname though

This is an interesting thread.

I have often travelled alone with DS. We did have the same surname (mine) but look nothing alike - I am white, he is mixed race. Often we have been asked upon return to the UK what our relationship is - but only in a semi-formal manner. Although last summer the immigration guy was more serious and suggested that we carry some documentation proving our family status.

so I am prepared to take his birth cert and my marriage cert (as I now have a different surname to him).

What hadn't crossed my mind though is that we take DSS with us. He has the same surname as DH (and me now) and he isn't questioned as to his family membership. DH doesn't have PR - but perhaps he should obtain some form of written consent from his XP?

We were considering a tr ip to the US to visit my family this summer, but I think it sounds like we would have to put in place a lot of paperwork getting permissions from the relevant 'other' parents... sheesh!

I can see how it is important though - it does worry me when I read about parents taking the DC away from their other parent when the relationship breaks down. Scary stuff.