Cafcass

[DaddyOO]

My wife has a daughter who has lied to Cafcass and told them that me and my wife both physically abused her. All so she could live with her dad. Cafcass believed her and said we should have a record with social services and that her daughter should live with her dad. There was a lot of background behind the case regarding the father abusing my wife and him teaching his daughter to disrespect her mother, i.e. throw things at her, scream at her, call her a bitch etc etc but Cafcass didn?t see this as being an issue. This has been the most traumatic thing anyone can go through being falsely accused by a government body of child abuse. Especially seeing as my wife is an angel and has a heart of gold and always puts everyone before her self. I studied for 10 years to become a chartered engineer and give advice in my field, it seems that when it comes to children you can train for 3 weeks and become an expert. The whole system is a complete failure and should be scrapped as soon as possible. Only professional child psychologists should be allowed to interview children and decide whether what they say is true or not.
I was wondering if anyone had any similar experiences??

Yes, and so do yours.

Sadly the courts are full of people who are convinced that they and only they know what's right, everyone else must be is wrong, and all advice must be rejected if it doesn't fit their agenda, no matter how practical it is.

I am simply pointing out that in this case, pursuing reconciliation rather than confrontation would give OP's wife a far better chance of reuniting with her daughter in future, particularly if the ex is as awful as he is described.

Sometimes you have to compromise to show your children that you are the better person. They need to know that no matter what, you will always be there for them and don't disapprove of their decisions, however misguided you think they are.

In this case, the daughter was already living with the father and wanted that arrangement to continue. It is therefore hardly unreasonable of him to apply for residence. Going to court to oppose the child's decision does not help you to achieve reconciliation - quite the opposite.

Exactly the same would be true if the child decided to live with the mother, who then applied for residence, and the father fought the child's decision through the court.

I'm with olgaga on this and yes, none of it is fair.

none of it is fair

Absolutely right. When a relationship has already broken down, and there is no out-of-court solution acceptable to the parties, all the courts can do is try to find the least worst option. There are no winners, certainly not the children.

I also agree with Olgaga who has written very sensible and insightful posts on this thread.

I'm a divorce lawyer and in these circumstances ie dealing with a 13 year old, would have advised the mother to let the daughter go to the father on the basis that the daughter knew that she could come back to the mother at any time. Had that happened then the likelihood is that the daughter would eventually have decided that the grass isn't greener at Daddy's house, and returned with no harm done.

That advice would have been different had the child been significantly younger.

What has now happened in this case is that everyone has dug their heels in, and it will now be difficult to fix the damage.

Ignoring the child's wishes and feelings is not the way to achieve what the mother wants.

I'm going to agree with Olgaga on this one (and we have been in this position).

If the 13 YO wants to go and live with her father then it's quite likely that the courts will allow her to do so, if they have a finding of fact hearing, even if it is found that it probably didn't happen (physical abuse), the judge will still have to consider that her desire to live with her father must be very strong to lie about such a thing.

Following this, a residency order may then be awarded to the father allowing the daughter to go and live with him, which will mean that he will be 'in charge' (even if she maintains shared care he will still have more of the decision making rights, not legally but it will work out that way)

Right, so if he gets the residency order then DD decides that actually its awful, you then have to go back to court to have the residency returned to you, all very expensive.

On the other hand, you could let her live with him and let her know that the door is always open for her and work on building bridges and repairing your DW's relationship with her, which surely must be damaged by whats happening.

whilst some fof you say let her go its clearly what she wants, and theres NO DAMAGE, if THEN she wants to come back, its just another court case that this child will have to go through! more interogation by cafcass and courts and the other parent sure is not going to just hand her over is he! He WILL drag this through the courts and the expenses also is high, this will cause even further damage to the child, who is a child after all!
Its all right people saying keep an open door she will probably see the grass is not greener on ther other side but what no one here is understanding is that the mother also has proably spent years being harrassed by the non resident parent through the child.
NOT ALL PARENTS ARE FAIR AND DO WHATS BEST FOR THE CHILD BUT MERELY USE THE CHILD FOR HARRASSMENT OF THE OTHER PARENT.

PERHAPS it would just be better for the mother to walk away until the child is older and get off the merry go round the father wishes to continue on.

PERHAPS it would be fair to say the daughter has made her bed and now she has to deal with her actions.

UNLESS people have been through a domestic abuse relationship they very often fail to see that the abusers carry on the emotional abuse long after the marrage has ended. AND if they want to have there children they have to put up with not only themselves being emotionally abused but there children also.

An unfair court system does not portect the innocent.

the mother in this case is the NRP - op said that she lives with the dad and dad wants residencey awarded to him to confirm the status quo.

"he wanted full custody of my wife's daughter even though she is living with him"

is not clear what contact - if any - the mother as NRP currently has with the child . perhaps op can clarify.

(but if a 13 year old refuses contact etc it is v difficult as was said)

kittycat68 - There would be no court case now if the OP and his wife were not objecting to the father's application for residence. Indeed, if they were not contesting his application he would be unlikely to get a residence order on the grounds that it was not necessary. As it is he is very likely to get the order he wants.

If the daughter chooses to live with her mother at some point in the future there will be no need for a court case unless the mother applies for residence and the father objects.

I agree with olgaga and mumblechum1.

HI,

Im hoping somebody has had some experience similar to my own...
I was recently taken to court by my ex partner at court for a contact order,however 5 mins before the hearing once told it would be settled through mediation (as per cafcass recommendation) he decided to apply for full residency...this has left me devastated as i know he doesnt have my sons best interest at heart.
my son has lived with me since separation and is now 10,it was decided he would have a cafcass wishes and feelings interview. My concerns are what circumstances they deem fit to allow my son to live with his day,he will probably opt to live there as he has been brainwashed and has no ground rules etc.
i have no police record and his father has convictions and cautions of aggressive behavior towards others and me. I also have two children at home who my son is very close to,do they take sibling separation into account??
Im so scared i loose him we have had the same contact arrangements for 10 years and up until him getting his new girlfriend these have worked well.
I guess i just want to know how they decide and what factors affect their decision,the thought of a court ruling against me at our hearing is something i cannot bear the thought of.

Many thanks ladies
Sarah

Mrs, you may perhaps ask MNHQ to start this as a new thread. You may get more responses.

In my opinion and having recently gone through the system Cafcass have a lot of work to do to improve the system. I have been the other side where Cafcass were believing my Ex partner. Allegations were made against me about Domestic abuse. Allegations that have cost a considerable amount of money to overcome. There is too many examples where one party, be it the mother or father can make up allegations that are simply not true. So much could be done to stop this being dragged through the courts. The one thing i truly believe is that if people and again i reiterate this, men or women make up allegations then there should be a severe punishment for this. If you want to stop unnecessary time and money spent being tied up in court for grudges then there needs to be a complete overhaul of the system. Legal Aid is the main factor in driving this and the fact you can just say you have experienced DV and have no evidence to prove it facilitates this. I feel that the system encourages this. Allegations are simply allegations and the harassment card is how the individual feels. Harassment can include trying to find out about your child/children. I feel in this snowflake world we live in people can just simply feel harassed and how does that benefit the child. Mediation needs to be reintroduced later on in court cases as it can help to reduce costs and stop people having to represent themselves which again makes it unfair. In my case Legal Aid has been used as a weapon to try and stop me fighting to see my child. I don't know why a woman is any better at being a parent compared to the father. I read so many posts about women on berating their ex partners and how they have had domestic violence against them. Why does this only get reported after the event? Surely if you want this to stop report it at the time and get the police involved. Be bold and be strong and report it at the time. It seems all to convenient to raise it as an issue when you are fighting to see your child. I am not saying that it doesn't happen but if you want it to change then you need to change your own behaviour to make a difference.

Zombie thread

Although my situation was different to this one (it’s further down in the Legal Matters forum – Care Proceedings – When hospitals get things wrong), my wife and I were very disappointed with Cafcass.

At the start of our Care Proceedings - having never been involved in something like this - we did not know anything about Cafcass. The Cafcass person assigned to us did overrule the LA’s recommendation of foster care for our two children right at the start, which was a ludicrous recommendation anyway, as we had a plethora of friends and family who were offering to help.

Our case was scheduled to run for six months but ended after four as the Judge urged the LA to withdraw from Proceedings, which they did. However, the Cafcass worker made no effort to meet our children until two months in when I complained about it. He then did visit them. And then when he came to see us, he was telling us that our case was one of the strangest he had ever been involved with; the hospital were saying our son had multiple fractures (he didn’t – they got it wrong), we had a load of excellent character references, my wife and I attended about 40 ‘Contact Sessions’ in which there was not one concern or issue raised and the Cafcass worker even acknowledged that “your children clearly love you”. He also pointed out that my wife and I were the ones who took our son to A&E in the first place and neither of us were known to Social Services or the Police. He went on to say he thought it would all be over soon and the children would be back with us. But despite all this, when we were in court he went against this and did not want to agree to OUR children coming home. We could not believe it after everything he had been saying to us. Thankfully the LA took the Judge’s advice and it did all end.

Another issue we had with him was at the start of it when my wife and I asked – face-to-face – the LA and Cafcass if they would object to us getting a 2nd opinion from a qualified medical professional on our son’s x-rays. They all agreed to it and it was even documented in minutes from a meeting which was then circulated to all parties. Yet when the medical report came back stating “cannot commit to seeing any fractures” he got cross and claimed he knew nothing about it. It was only when my solicitor pointed out he not only had been made aware of it but that he had sanctioned it that I was told “[he] is very busy and doesn’t read all his emails”.

From my own experience with Cafcass, Care Proceedings and Social Services, I think the system is a farce. We dealt with so-called ‘professionals’ who could not even get our son’s name right, DOB right or x-ray dates right. Is it any wonder people have such little faith in ‘the system’?