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Legal matters

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Representing myself in court

46 replies

redbaren · 15/11/2011 17:41

After winning a one and a half year court battle most of it which occurred in Italy I won full custody and returned to the UK with my child. My X followed us nearly four years ago and has always threatened to take me back to court to get more access because we were living in the same country now, despite the fact the judge based his decision on an in depth psychological report which went totally in my favour and described his actions as narcissistic. I have dreaded the day as I never wanted to step inside another court room again. Now hes on jobseekers and so because hes now got legal aid he has filed an urgent application in the courts to gain joint custody because he says my son is at risk!!!!!!
I now have to dig up the injunctions and police reports of the abuse he inflicted on me in front of my son. Its going to open up a whole can of worms.
I went to my lawyer yesterday but Im not entitled to legal aid. Her fees are £200 per hour. Im thinking of representing myself. Ive already remortgaged my home to pay for past court cases with him....Anyone got any good solid advice they can give me. This is really quite overwhelming for me...

OP posts:
LeBOF · 15/11/2011 17:43

You need to repost in Legal, I think. AIBU gets traffic, but not much in the way of common sense, and certainly not expert opinion.

LeBOF · 15/11/2011 17:45

Here- you just have to be patient, as it's a quieter board, but there will be people who can help you there.

minipie · 15/11/2011 17:57

There are quite a lot of free legal clinics, esp in London, and there is also the Citizens Advice Bureau - though their resources are always stretched. They can give you limited free help which can at least steer you on the right course.

The courts are generally very understanding and patient with people who represent themselves so don't be scared by the process. There are lots of leaflets and free guides available from the court website.

You may also be able to get some advice on here in the Legal section as LeBOF says.

eurochick · 15/11/2011 18:09

Find a legal advice centre near you that deals with family matters. See if you can find a solicitor or barrister to advise you on a pro bono basis.

If not, consider engaging your lawyer but on a limited basis - i.e. you go to her when you need her advice but you are conducting the case. She will want this very carefully spelled out in an engagment letter, but like this you would be able to control the costs very carefully. I've done this sort of thing on an employment matter - I had one session with a solicitor to advice me as to my legal position and then drafted letters myself, which he looked over. This cost me a fraction of what it would have cost to have given him the file and told him to negotiate on my behalf. So that is one option if you cannot find pro bono help.

Good luck.

auntiepicklebottom2 · 15/11/2011 18:16

no advice, but good luck.

www.direct.gov.uk/en/CrimeJusticeAndTheLaw/Goingtocourt/DG_181619

hiddenhome · 15/11/2011 18:17

I represented myself in court on two occasions. You are entitled to take someone with you - a McKenzie Friend (assistant) who can't speak for you, but is permitted to take notes and give you moral support.

It's actually more satisfying representing yourself because lawyers very rarely actually do as you ask them anyway. My last two lawyers were like timid mice and I ended up doing all the talking anyway. I achieved a good outcome as well, so it can be done.

You need to try and keep calm and ignore your nerves, once you're in there and the process has started, it's not so bad.

You need to do quite a bit of research to find out what you should be asking for and what you need to give to the other side. If you go in with all guns blazing, then they don't like that. You're expected to be reasonable and not diss the other parent. Try to remain objective and be prepared to give way a little.

hiddenhome · 15/11/2011 18:22

Childrens Legal Centre

These people are very good, they will guide you through the process of applying to court etc. and give you advice.

One thing that I would advise (people might disagree with me, but I've been through it) is that if you have any nervous or depression problems, get to the GP and ask for some antidepressants. I know it sounds drastic, but they will help keep you calm and keep you on track, stop you from getting down about it. Going through the court process is very stressful and I did it without anything to help me, but it was too difficult and I became very depressed with panic attacks. I wish I'd asked for medical assistance sooner tbh, so don't be afraid to seek a little something to help you through the process, it's safer than drinking too Smile You can always come off them once it's over. Just something to consider.

bumbleymummy · 15/11/2011 18:42

Check your home insurance. Sometimes it covers legal expenses.

maypole1 · 15/11/2011 18:45

I would not especially with something as so precious as your child

If it were easy and worked well every one would do it and save themselves a whole load of money

Italys political and judiciary is very corrupt so I very much doubt that any judgement will hold water here they will see the case on their own merits

redbaren · 15/11/2011 19:09

Hi thanks for all the advice. Yes I agree Italy is very corrupt and I did not expect to win against a large and fairly powerful Italian family but the judge was fare and went on the psychological reports .
Whats more my son is getting quite stressed and upset as he does not want to stay with his father any more than he is at the moment...He currently stays with him every other week end and half every school holiday including half terms plus a few extra days here and there when I have courses. My son has hardly been eating since I got served the court papers, Im trying to convince him its all going to be ok and that it will remain the same. Its breaking my heart. Will he be allowed to speak to CAFCAS? I hope so,he is 9.

OP posts:
hiddenhome · 15/11/2011 19:19

He will be able to speak to Cafcass and they will take his views into consideration.

ElsieMc · 15/11/2011 19:29

Please do re-post in legal where you should get some good advice - but not necessarily what you want to hear.

I self represented and it is incredibly stressful. Some Judges are good with litigants in person, but others are not and are impatient and mutter about why they have not got legal representation. Sadly this sort of comment shows how out of touch some of the judiciary are - who can afford £200 per hour in the real world? Some Judges will not give you decent opportunity to speak although others will no doubt insist otherwise. It's all down to personal experience.

I would take some initial advice however. The system here supports the child's right to contact and unless there are very compelling reasons why your DS should not have contact with his father you will be in difficulty. I don't want to put you off or worry you further, just trying to be realistic.

CAFCASS are a hit and miss affair so please do be wary. You know your own child better than anyone else, not some so called professional.

I hope you get some good support and advice and wish you luck.

auntiepicklebottom2 · 15/11/2011 20:21

things i would start reasearching, is that have you got full custody at all.....the order was made in italy and not in the uk.

www.familycourtsupport.co.uk/ this is a free service.

auntiepicklebottom2 · 15/11/2011 20:23

should add for 30 minutes

redwineformethanks · 15/11/2011 20:30

If you do represent yourself, try to stay very focused and not get distracted into rants about all the past history (unless it's relevant). In my experience many judges are quite sympathetic towards party litigants provided they show respect and courtesy and don't roll their eyes if they don't like what they've just heard

babybarrister · 15/11/2011 21:31

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

babybarrister · 15/11/2011 21:58

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

springydaffs · 16/11/2011 00:19

I had to do this. I had been to court endless times - ex's way of keeping me under his thumb - and legal aid refused to fund any more, so I had to represent myself. I was terrified, literally inwardly quaked. I won! Hands down, he got nothing. First time in all those court cases - and last, as ex never took me to court again.

the court staff are usually very kind and helpful when someone is representing themselves. Do your research, know your case like you're swotting for a doctorate (you probably already do but know it like the back of your hand, every single part of it - and research around it). Keep absolutely calm and factual; if you are questioned keep your answers as short as possible, succinct, to the point - don't drone on or his counsel will use your woolly answers to try to catch you out. Barristers are bright - be bright too, sharpen your brain with all that studying and research. Don't reacte with irritation or frustration to any comments made by ex or ex's counsel - don't reacte. In short, take your head into the courtroom, not your heart.

Last and not least, wear a skirt and look feminine - not OTT but demure/plain. shocking eh (and people may howl with derision but this was my experience, and I had plenty of it) but best to be on the safe side. Find out how the judge likes to be addressed (ask the court staff); be quietly respectful and not ballsy; don't be a know-all. If you can't remember what you were going to say, it's ok to pause - fiddle with your papers or something: better to be quiet than to gabble. Remember to keep your breathing steady - deep breaths, into your stomach.

NOt expert advice, certainly, but bourne out of experience.

Good luck OP. Get some counsel about stopping him endlessly taking you to court as my ex did.

springydaffs · 16/11/2011 00:45

re ds - get every authority on your side - GP, school etc. Get reports from them about ds's disquiet at the latest developments. It is likely that ex doesn't know the fine details about ds's life (my ex didn't know what year my kids were in at school, despite bleeting he was the thwarted, heartbroken father - his legal battering was entirely aimed at me, to undermine me, and had nothing to do with his so-say love for the kids) so catch him out in the courtroom if you can. Build the case and don't leave any stone unturned - use anything and everything - be (quietly) ruthless. Admittedly, you can't get the GP to say what you want - of course - but what you want the GP etc to say is the truth, that ds is distressed at the thought of spending more time with ex and very unhappy at the renewed legal wrangling. I would get advice and support for ds and would also keep most of the facts from him - tbh my kids never knew I went to court so many times, I never told them - though it wasn't a custody battle and it's maybe different in your case.

I hope I'm not making this sounds like the movies though - it isn't anything like the movies. But you know that after all you went through in Italy.

redbaren · 16/11/2011 11:37

Thanks Springydaffs some very solid advice there...

OP posts:
springydaffs · 16/11/2011 14:11

Really? I was thinking that I'd gone a bit and posted too late at night

I guess it's experience at the front, so to speak.

thinking about it, the last case was for extended access. The case I won. Hands down.

ex is also from a very rich and influential family, so I had my work cut out. He wore his old school tie to every court appearance - duly noted by every judge.

YOu get the picture.. Hmm

Pay for counsel now and again as you go along, to get some pointers and check you're going in the right direction. Don't mention any other court cases in the courtroom re smith v smith - leave the expertise to the experts (they like to feel they're pretty special and no-one could do their job - least of all a woman off the streets). If appropriate, allude to aspects of those cases but obliquely - let them work out the link, pretend you don't know it.

redbaren · 16/11/2011 17:22

I was gearing myself up for self representation but I spoke to someone today for some legal advice and they have totally knocked the wind out of my sails by playing devils advocate and totally picking holes in my side of the story. Help feel so alone and scared. Cant get legal aid and I've got £6.66 in my bank account at the moment.

OP posts:
springydaffs · 16/11/2011 18:01

Back to the drawing board then. I know it's hard but a lot depends on this - get a second (third, fourth) opinion - scout around for legal advice. Did whoever it was offer some guidelines or pointers? It may feel like a setback but you wouldn't want to have heard that in the courtroom - you at least have chance to get on it before you get there.

Keep going OP. I know it's hard. Have you contacted Womens Aid for legal advice and pointers? I would strongly suggest you do - they are excellent 0808 2000 247

springydaffs · 16/11/2011 18:02

btw have you posted in legal yet? YOu'll get some good stuff there - bit slower but worth it.

Seabright · 16/11/2011 19:36

Go and look at Lucy Reed's blog www.pinktape.co.uk. She's a family law barrister and has written an excellent book on representing yourself in family courts. She's on Twitter too @familoo