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Original poster

how to get legal advice without being fleeced?

26 replies

elliott · 11/02/2011 17:31

I need to get some legal advice about wills, trusts, inheritance etc. Its all a bit out of my experience so I don't really know what I need iyswim.
I don't know where to start to find a good solicitor who won't charge the earth, or even how to find out how much they will charge. it all seems very opaque to me.
Anyone any idea? Do you ask them up front to say what they will charge? Or what?

OP posts:
Original poster
elliott · 11/02/2011 19:51

ok maybe not best topic for friday night!

OP posts:
sneezecakesmum · 11/02/2011 20:17

I think most solicitors charge £200-300 and hour?? Some do 1/2 hour for free. CAB have legal advisors.

If I were you I would look up as much as possible on the internet so at least you have a good general idea of what its all about, so that when you see a solicitor you will have refined your questions to what is relevant to you and hopefully save a bit of time and money.

sneezecakesmum · 11/02/2011 20:19

PS I think will drawing up services are cheaper but your question seems to involve a lot of other stuff

Resolution · 11/02/2011 23:44

If your tax situation is basic then most solicitors will consider it part of the will advice (often a fixed fee). If you want something like a complicated accumulation and maintenance settlement then you'll have to pay by the hour.

Original poster
elliott · 12/02/2011 20:22

But I don't know if my situation is basic or not - that's why I need advice! I don't even know if I need a solicitor (apart from the will, which of course needs a solicitor), or a tax accountant, or a financial adviser - or all three! It all seems like a bit of a scary minefield to me.
I have been talking to a financial adviser who recommended a lawyer - but how do I know if he's any good? or what he would charge (I know I know, I need to ask him - but he neatly sidestepped that question on the phone...)

OP posts:
Resolution · 13/02/2011 10:49

They won't know how much they'll charge you until they know how much work they'll need to do. It's like ringing a mechanic to tell them your car's broken and asking how much it will cost. They need to know exactly what's wrong first.

Get a solicitor who is a member of the society of trust and estate practitioners (STEP). They will be a specialist. As with anything in life, if you want a top job doing, you'll pay a top fee.

You'll pay by the hour for the initial advice, then you can decide what work you want them to do after that.

Solicitors/accountants etc are in the business of giving advice. If they get it wrong and you suffer loss you and sue them for it. You have to expect to pay the going rate for it.

Original poster
elliott · 13/02/2011 12:40

THanks resolution - what is the going rate though? How do I know that a higher fee means a better job? Should I get three quotes and compare??
I'm quite happy paying the going rate (whatever that is) but I don't know whether I need a rolls royce or a fiesta. And I would at least like to have some idea of what ballpark figure to budget for...
I will look for STEP practitioners, that seems to be a sensible starting point.

OP posts:
Original poster
elliott · 13/02/2011 12:51

When you say - 'pay by te hour for initial advice' - do you mean that I would pay £200 to find out how much it would cost?
That's the bit that I worry about - does the clock start tickign the minute I speak to them, or is the initial fact finding free and then they tell me how much it woudl cost to do what I need to do?

OP posts:
sneezecakesmum · 13/02/2011 23:01

Try for a solicitor who gives a free 1/2 hour, they will advise you on your options and give you an estimate of the end fees. It will be expensive but if you pay peanuts you get monkees!

KarenHL · 13/02/2011 23:05

If you live in Devon or Hampshire I can recommend a couple of good ones.

accessorizequeen · 13/02/2011 23:18

What about a law clinic at a university if there is one? Free advice from law students guided by professionals. There are quite a lot around the country.

freshmint · 13/02/2011 23:24

if you are dealing with trusts and inheritance issues you do NOT want free advice from law students! it is complicated! You need a good lawyer who specialises in the area and you need to pay their fees. in that area the advice they give you will almost certainly be more valuable than the money you pay for it. If you are out of London then a specialist in your area will probably cost less than a specialist in London so go down that route.

tigerdriverII · 13/02/2011 23:27

You should explain up front to the lawyer that you want to know what the costs would be. They may be able to give you a quote, or an estimate, or at least an idea of the fees. They will tell you their rates. You should talk about this before you are committed to anything.

You could ask around if you have friends, colleagues, etc who might have used lawyers for these services. I think you said that your accountants had recommended someone - maybe ask them if there's anyone else they would recommend. Most professionals will only recommend someone who they respect - they don't want duff recommendations coming back to bite them.

Many firms have private client services (wills etc) and they vary a lot so you need to find out what will work for you. You could also try the online legal directories (Legal 500, Chambers) which will list some of the leading practitioners in your area. These are freely accessible.

The cheapest legal advice might be ok, it might not be the best. You might not need an expensive lawyer if your situation isn't complex. Getting a free half hour might or might not be useful. I think that in choosing a lawyer you need to make a very personal decision about who you trust, and you will need to do some ringing around to get a feel for that.

Hope all that helps1

QuintessentialShadows · 13/02/2011 23:33

Just keep your head straight on.
I went to a lawyer regards my will, and after talking to me for half an hour, he told me he was quite junior, and he would really like to bring on board a more senior lawyer. We agreed I came back the next week. I saw both of them, spent an hour talking to them, was none the wiser when I left, and was promptly billed £216 for nothing, zilch nada. Still have no will. Because you see, the FIRST consultation was free, the next one wasnt. I still did not get any advice, but I took up their valuable time. Though, no userful advice. This was Russell-Cooke, a "reputable" law firm. I tried to complain, saying I had neither had a will drawn up, nor received useful advice. But there is no point arguing with The Big Guys. Especially not lawyers when you are a nobody.

freshmint · 13/02/2011 23:36

So you spent an hour and a half with two lawyers and got no advice?

Or didn't get the advice you wanted?

QuintessentialShadows · 13/02/2011 23:39

I got nothing useful. Even if I had filled in a long questionnaire about myself and my dh and sent back prior to my second visit, outlining everything.

The only useful thing they could confirm was that it was possible to put stuff in a trust for my sons. But why should that not be possible? They were more keen on asking questions about my parents, regards to THEIR estate, then talk about making a will for me.

tigerdriverII · 13/02/2011 23:42

Elliott - Quint's experience is important and salutary. A solicitor will not normally want a battle over their fees, so they should make clear to you what their fees will cover and what service you can expect from them. the difficult cases are where the lawyer can't help - perhaps the case isn't a viable one, or the costs of proceeding with a course of action will outweigh the benefits. Sometimes then the client will feel that they got nothing in return from the advice: and depending on the circs, the lawyer may have put in a lot of work in concluding that the case won't go anywhere etc. So the important thing is to manage expectations on both sides early on. You won't get something for nothing though. but I'm sure that's not what you're looking for. However, lawyers are not all looking to fleece you - on the contrary, a happy client will mean repeat business and recommendations.

QuintessentialShadows · 13/02/2011 23:48

I second what tigerdriver is saying, regards to repeat business at least.

We had been using this firm for our business for years, but decided to go elsewhere after this. The only reason why I went to them regards to advice about my will, was because I had been happy so far.

To me it seemed they were just keen to asses "my worth", as they were trying to push their own trust service, and needed to find out how much I stood to inherit from my own parents, to assess if I was worth it, from the perspective of their own commission on said trust service. And that basically cost me £216 plus vat. I wanted a will, not to make a trust. And I got nothing, and paid a very steep price for that nothing.

LittlePushka · 14/02/2011 00:27

I do not know one lawyer who looks to fleece any client, let alone a prospective client - so please do not assume this is the deal! Solicitors (though not will writers)are regulated by the SRA and one of their functions is to prevent "fleecings"!!

Suggest you outline your issues and basic situation. Send this to a number of solicitors and ask them for a quote for an initial meeting to discuss the issues. The solicitor will always need more information. Most solicitors I know would readily give their initial time free - they cannot assess whether they they can give you advice unless you talk to them first. they should in that meeting after having heard the issues give you an indication as to what they would charge to provide the documents/give the written advice

However, for many reasons (not least because they are regulated as to what they must do prior to taking on a client) what they are unlikely to do is give you all the answers you need in a free meeting. It should be a fact finding mission for them to give you an indication of what is required to resolve the issue AND the costs of that. What lawyers sell is their knowledge and ability - so there is a cost for that, just as there is by a mechanic!! But not all lawyers charge by the hour and as has been said, your issues may be resolvable with a fixed fee. A good lawyer will explain fees structure ahead of taking your case and you will be given terms of business so that you do not get "fleeced".

(Quintessential - there is a trust in every will, it is just the complexity of that trust which differs, and all wills lawyers are keen to assess your current worth and potential future worth - for not to be so would be negligent in that context.)

Also, The drafting of a will is a loss leader generally in pure financial terms for high street practices - it is the investment in the client for the future (probate and other business)that is particularly important. Investment and fleecing are mutually exclusive in the legal field!

Good luck Smile

QuintessentialShadows · 14/02/2011 08:33

LittlePushka. As a non-lawyer, I dont know this, which is why I seek legal advice, rather than buying a will writing kit from Rymans.

I wanted a will to replace my other will from before we had children, where my MIL and my sister was down as benefactor.

It is a shame that the lawyers present at the meeting were unable to suggest anything, other than acting as trustees for a fee and taking commission, rather than set me up with a new will, like I wanted. And bill me for the pleasure.
Come to think of it, I also think it was pretty negligent. But did not have the capacity to fight them. Would probably cost me a lot more. After all £216 for having an hour of hardsell, is not the end of the world.

OP, based on my experience, please ensure that you do understand what is going on, set out clearly what you want to achieve, and you will not end up feeling taken for a ride and "fleeced".

RamblingRosa · 14/02/2011 08:38

Are you or your DP union members? Almost all unions offer a free legal helpline and free wills services.

senua · 14/02/2011 08:54

There is a MNer who runs a will-writing service. Please don't take this as a recommendation as I don't know her from Adam but I'm assuming that one MNer won't rip off another.
Mumblechum. Based in Bucks according to her profile.

LittlePushka · 14/02/2011 21:58

Quintessentialshadows - I'd say £216 for an hour of hardsell is £216 too much! If you are concerned about this then you should report your concerns in writing in the following order to (a) the solicitors involved if no joy then to (b) the complaints officer within the firm and again thereafter (c) to the SRA and ask them to investigate your concerns. None of this will cost you anything ...that is the point of regulation of the profession.

Original poster
elliott · 17/02/2011 17:11

Ok thanks all. I should state that I am NOT after something for nothing, I am happy to pay properly for advice that is useful, but I am also a bit of a skeptic.

I think I need to go through the STEP practitioners in my area and talk to a few of them on the phone to get a feel. I have been contacted by the person recommended by my IFA, who I checked IS a STEP practitioner and works for a big firm in my area, so I am sure would not be cheap and probably does know his onions. However he did spend most of the time on the phone to me trying to find out how much an inheritance I am about to receive was worth (I gave him the ball park figure as far as I know) and really just pushing issues that are not of interest to me. So I guess I want to avoid the Quint experience where I find that the lawyer has spent a lot of time on things i don't want and not much time listening to my needs.

OP posts:
Resolution · 17/02/2011 18:12

Remember though, what might seem unimportant to you might actually be the opposite. No solicitor will ask questions just to be nosy. There'll be a reason for every question.

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